convore.json/groups/christian-thinking/disease-vs-faith/messages.json

[{"user_id": 32888, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305554764.6007209, "message": "at the root, disease is a result of sin...", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1071095}, {"user_id": 32888, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305555616.688185, "message": "so, the root of all sin, is adam's fault.", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1071236}, {"user_id": 33006, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305555760.149739, "message": "@penkin bugger, so nothing i can do will matter...", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1071277}, {"user_id": 13817, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305553927.0520689, "message": "Not sure what they're saying since I'm battling the flu.", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1070909}, {"user_id": 32888, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305554017.8031271, "message": "yah. that is also why you don't have financial victory in your life. Seriously, Jesus came to give life in abundance... disease and poverty is not life of abundance.", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1070932}, {"user_id": 13817, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305554106.2362559, "message": "What worries me, is these Christians telling me this are like: \"Makes sense hey?\"", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1070946}, {"user_id": 32888, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305554140.294064, "message": "That's biblical that is.", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1070956}, {"user_id": 33006, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305554198.311311, "message": "and what if you are like a super christian, do your cells also mutate into better examples of themselves, and you become some kind of bionicle?", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1070968}, {"user_id": 33006, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305554205.8444829, "message": "i mean", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1070971}, {"user_id": 33006, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305554351.3666689, "message": "it didn't work...", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1071021}, {"user_id": 32888, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305554049.9113469, "message": "for healing and money", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1070936}, {"user_id": 32888, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305554295.2670469, "message": "what is ridiculously interesting is to contrast doctors with faith and then take it a step further to in-utero ops vs faith... and then one step forward to genetic modification (to say remove downs from the cards) and faith.", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1071001}, {"user_id": 13817, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305555600.10976, "message": "http://www.kalahari.net/books/A-More-Excellent-Way-Be-in-Health/632/33872220.aspx?keyid=rss", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1071230}, {"user_id": 32888, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305553852.22452, "message": "Faith wins!", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1070889}, {"user_id": 33006, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305553974.4096179, "message": "you are possessed by the flu demon", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1070920}, {"user_id": 13817, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305554006.2818091, "message": "@jonobarton I just don't have the faith.", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1070927}, {"user_id": 33006, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305554041.5027621, "message": "you need to see a songoma. Faith healers baby!", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1070933}, {"user_id": 32888, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305554046.241606, "message": "that's why he walked about focussing on healing everyone... and why he sent the spirit.", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1070935}, {"user_id": 32888, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305554053.4301701, "message": "not anything else.", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1070938}, {"user_id": 32888, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305554150.9768431, "message": "check out David, and Solomon...", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1070960}, {"user_id": 33006, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305554213.6582849, "message": "wheres the incentive otherwise?", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1070975}, {"user_id": 33006, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305554265.1747229, "message": "@fatface what your point?", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1070992}, {"user_id": 33006, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305554370.052469, "message": "oh yes, someting did happen...she got a new pair of glasses.", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1071024}, {"user_id": 13817, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305553904.4034281, "message": "So... someone was telling me about this incredible book they were reading. Basically from what I can gather is that all your sickness is linked to lack of faith and/or your sin.", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1070903}, {"user_id": 13817, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305553955.512481, "message": "Apparently no, that's different. Other diseases and illnesses.", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1070915}, {"user_id": 13817, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305554087.2212501, "message": "This dude goes on to say that, when the white blood cells attacks the body it's root sin it hatred of yourself. So you're trying to kill yourself. Dude = Author", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1070941}, {"user_id": 13817, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305554124.219703, "message": "I'm like: \"No, not really\"", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1070952}, {"user_id": 32888, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305554132.7412159, "message": "well. it totally does. didn't you read my earlier comments...", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1070954}, {"user_id": 13817, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305554459.940444, "message": "so how did she reconcile that. She determine it was a problem with her faith muscles?", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1071041}, {"user_id": 33006, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305554571.462636, "message": "i actually don't remember.", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1071065}, {"user_id": 33006, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305553978.7091069, "message": "repent", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1070921}, {"user_id": 13817, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305554229.3440149, "message": "A guy I know's sister in law is all like against docs and what not. Show's she is weak in faith if she runs to man for help.", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1070979}, {"user_id": 32888, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305554986.422703, "message": "'s work on the cross, our perfected bodies in heaven", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1071122}, {"user_id": 33006, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305555208.196208, "message": "theft = gammy knee", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1071153}, {"user_id": 32888, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305554229.0732241, "message": "@jonobarton you have young boys don't you?", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1070978}, {"user_id": 33006, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305554317.071094, "message": "trampled her glasses in faith that God will restore 20/20 vision", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1071008}, {"user_id": 13817, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305554348.6493471, "message": "@jonobarton and nothing happened?", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1071020}, {"user_id": 33006, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305554289.2356861, "message": "my sister in law is kinda like that", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1071000}, {"user_id": 32888, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305554315.4795561, "message": "@jonobarton i have no idea what bionicles even are... besides something lego like.", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1071007}, {"user_id": 33006, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305554585.208221, "message": "wasn't to interested tbh", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1071067}, {"user_id": 32888, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305554990.4834399, "message": "is that better?", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1071123}, {"user_id": 33006, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305555192.4918339, "message": "or is it a random, lucky draw?", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1071152}, {"user_id": 32888, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305554975.4736569, "message": "but the solution is christ", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1071121}, {"user_id": 32888, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305555011.7959731, "message": "the perfect arrival of the kingdom...", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1071127}, {"user_id": 13817, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305555611.7351141, "message": "Henry W. Wright, that's who", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1071235}, {"user_id": 13817, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305555664.3243151, "message": "@LintonCaldecott Yeah we got that :) That's my argument to this. We are all subject to sin, death and disease because of Adam!", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1071250}, {"user_id": 32900, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305554722.9281361, "message": "Certainly is a lot of biblical reference to disease resulting from sin. How do we explain that away?", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1071086}, {"user_id": 32900, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305554848.0751791, "message": "@LintonCaldecott stop using big words Mr theology student. You're not impressing anyone!", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1071104}, {"user_id": 33006, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305555184.0464201, "message": "so like...can we categorize sins to disease?", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1071150}, {"user_id": 13817, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305555326.4707611, "message": "@jonobarton Well this dude's book goes on to say that Eczema has the root sin of being hard on yourself or hating... something like that. He lines up most things with their root sins it seems?", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1071167}, {"user_id": 32888, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305555658.4381411, "message": "or, if you are that kind of person... into specific types of pre-destination then it's kind of God's fault?", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1071248}, {"user_id": 33006, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305555541.8223841, "message": "who defines the \"root sins\"", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1071216}, {"user_id": 32888, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305555610.523788, "message": "I was implying that through adam, sin and death entered into the world. Disease being something that wouldnt affect the perfect human body, but it does have its effect on the fallen body, I.E. us", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1071234}, {"user_id": 32900, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305555755.4835441, "message": "Assuming Adam was real.... :p", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1071276}, {"user_id": 32900, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305646073.240447, "message": "What do you make of the story about Moses and the staff as related to sin and disease and faith?", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1084284}, {"user_id": 32888, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305664214.0715489, "message": "I say that is old testament stuff, so we can ignore it!", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1087814}, {"user_id": 32900, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305704887.9179921, "message": "@LintonCaldecott stirrer!", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1094349}, {"user_id": 13817, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305784924.7016079, "message": "@pevans_om I was thinking that a sinful life could definitely lead to disease (i.e. sleeping around could lead to HIV). So with the Moses thing that could have been the case? My concern is the teaching that all disease is a result of your personal sin and/or lack of faith for healing. Do you think that is the case?", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1108687}, {"user_id": 32900, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305796234.314151, "message": "OT thinking seems to have been that bad things happened because we sinned - including disease. The bad thing wasn't even necessarily related directly to the sin - like promiscuity & HIV. We complained about moses and God and now snakes are killing us... And God seems to RESPOND to that through the Bronze serpent.", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1109731}, {"user_id": 13817, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305803629.7897091, "message": "@pevans_om Ok? Not sure I know what you're getting at? Can we then make a good case that that's how things operate? You Sin = You Sick and therefore to get better you need to stop the sin.", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1110325}, {"user_id": 32900, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305803777.377099, "message": "@penkin I'm not 'getting' at anything. Just offering something to think about. What do YOU think about that story? Can we just disregard these stories because they're OT? There is evidence that supports the link between sin and disease and there is evidence (Jesus' quote about the blind man) that denies the link. What do we do with this?", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1110345}, {"user_id": 13817, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305803691.124722, "message": "@pevans_om Personally I don't think the case is that strong? But I've been wrong before :) A lot :)", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1110335}, {"user_id": 13817, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305803934.229677, "message": "@pevans_om I posted above what I think... \"I was thinking that a sinful life could definitely lead to disease (i.e. sleeping around could lead to HIV). So with the Moses thing that could have been the case? My concern is the teaching that all disease is a result of your personal sin and/or lack of faith for healing. Do you think that is the case?\"\n\nI don't see the serpent thing as a disease or sickness. Unless you are trying to change the topic to \"Do bad things happen to us if we sin?\"", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1110366}, {"user_id": 13817, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305804228.8160501, "message": "This is my current stance/opinion: When Adam sinned things broke. With this brokenness came disease/sickness. We get sick because things are broken.\n\nI am not sure that God now makes people sick because they committed some sort of sin. Not sure I could walk up to a sick person as say... YOU SICK CAUSE OF YOUR SIN. STOP SINNING! *waving finger*", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1110390}, {"user_id": 32900, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305804230.9159279, "message": "@penkin It was the first bible example of sin = something bad that came to mind. It's certainly not the only one. I'm not sure what to believe with this personally. I don't think you get the flu because you've sinned.", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1110391}, {"user_id": 13817, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305804322.4619451, "message": "@pevans_om sure I hear you. I think the original point was that book. Where a dude was outlining sin X = disease/sickness Y. Not sure we could ever get to that? Not sure how he gets to it?", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1110403}, {"user_id": 32900, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305805178.00563, "message": "In the statement about Adam you essentially admit that disease exists because of sin, in a general sense anyway. perhaps there are times when God can punish with disease as specific person for a specific sin. Perhaps to help that person realise the extent of his sin and cause him to turn to God. I certainly don't think God would do it for any other reason", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1110486}, {"user_id": 13817, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305805115.3357899, "message": "@pevans_om Yeah. I need to repent cause I did have the flu :(", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1110484}, {"user_id": 13817, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305805434.3044989, "message": "@pevans_om Agree. I suppose then maybe to know if it is because of sin God would need to tell the person that in whatever way? Otherwise there is no lesson learnt? Unless by the nature of the disease it forces the stopping of the sin? But then what will stop the person from returning once they recover? So many questions :-| I need to  think this all through.", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1110507}, {"user_id": 32900, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305805073.5101371, "message": "@penkin Maybe sometimes they are closely tied and sometime it's just a bug! :)", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1110482}, {"user_id": 32900, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305804867.243295, "message": "However, when looking especially at the OT you will see that Sin And Disease are often mentioned together, example: Psalm 103:3 \"who forgives all your sins and heals all your diseases,\". This is often a common theme. Sin brings disease and disease means there is sin. Why else would Jesus' disciples ask of the man born blind, \u201cRabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?\u201d (John 9:1) ? At this point Jesus seems to break the link, however, in John 5:14 Jesus says to the man He healed at the pool, \u201cSee, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you.\u201d and connects the two. So who can say for sure?", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1110466}, {"user_id": 13817, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305805020.923825, "message": "@pevans_om That's interesting. Maybe we've become too soft? Maybe they are closely tied but we don't want to make people feel bad so we don't confront their sin?", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1110478}, {"user_id": 32888, "stars": [{"date_created": 1305813718.3205991, "user_id": 13817}], "topic_id": 35492, "date_created": 1305813093.175005, "message": "Too much thinking it through. Bad things happen to good people and to bad people. God causes rain on the just and unjust. The fact that we suffer disease is a result of Adam's fall, if you get the flu, it might be that God is trying to get your attention, but then I think you might know he is. Every biblical case of disease as a result of sin the people turned to God. Job got all kinds of smiting on his butt and when his friends linked that to some sin he MUST have had, he said that's preposterous and so did God. God offered no explanation to Job about WHY he suffered ever... He just did, and Job still praised God in the end. There is no hard and fast sin x leads to disease y, that is an extension (or the root?) of prosperity doctrine, and it's bogus.", "group_id": 9787, "id": 1111298}]