convore.json/groups/django-community/farewell-djangy/messages.json

[{"user_id": 539, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298853043.2546711, "message": "Performance anxiety?", "group_id": 81, "id": 222974}, {"user_id": 1, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298852769.613704, "message": "They seem to be setting up this false dichotomy where they have to either grow fast or they'll die, and they're choosing to die before that happens?", "group_id": 81, "id": 222947}, {"user_id": 719, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298852714.380976, "message": "@ericflo Me neither.", "group_id": 81, "id": 222945}, {"user_id": 1736, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298853352.6361041, "message": "Stealth acquisition? Maybe they got hired by Rackspace or EY and they wanted to kill the brand ASAP?", "group_id": 81, "id": 223000}, {"user_id": 1, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298852674.1689661, "message": "http://blog.djangy.com/2011/02/27/final-djangy-newsletter/", "group_id": 81, "id": 222941}, {"user_id": 1, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298852696.205452, "message": "I don't really understand their reasoning", "group_id": 81, "id": 222943}, {"user_id": 719, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298852701.800472, "message": "\"after much soul-searching, we've decided to discontinue work on Djangy\"", "group_id": 81, "id": 222944}, {"user_id": 719, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298852917.2834549, "user_id": 1}, {"date_created": 1298853305.2921391, "user_id": 1736}, {"date_created": 1298855205.8340859, "user_id": 1081}], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298852911.9783249, "message": "Seems a bit early to be quitting.", "group_id": 81, "id": 222970}, {"user_id": 1081, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298855294.3470631, "message": "I\"m glad i chose ep.io over djangy to beta test ... i don't know why they take that stance, but i think something like this could be run well once stable, at least i get that feeling from andrew at ep.io ... i'm crossing my fingers it stays like that", "group_id": 81, "id": 223099}, {"user_id": 456, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298855134.1594751, "message": "@ericflo I think they realised it's a big commitment and they aren't willing to make it", "group_id": 81, "id": 223087}, {"user_id": 738, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298855139.5965929, "message": "There could be a bunch of reasons, personal reasons, need money, etc. Could also because even if they talk about accepting money, maybe they actually couldn't get someone to invest in them? Who knows?", "group_id": 81, "id": 223088}, {"user_id": 1, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298855174.2379, "message": "@jtauber I think you're probably right", "group_id": 81, "id": 223089}, {"user_id": 456, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298855183.480804, "user_id": 1}, {"date_created": 1298855232.0417981, "user_id": 1081}, {"date_created": 1298857664.19046, "user_id": 177}, {"date_created": 1298867358.4370799, "user_id": 4156}, {"date_created": 1298879813.0459981, "user_id": 4889}, {"date_created": 1298901743.9543879, "user_id": 6618}, {"date_created": 1298996435.551439, "user_id": 592}], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298855178.814348, "message": "in other words, it's not something you can do as a side project", "group_id": 81, "id": 223090}, {"user_id": 15517, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298859754.2534139, "message": "if it's true, it's sad to see.  i can definitely say it's work (i'm from apphosted).  djangy had some cool features, good docs for an early state, and looked promising.", "group_id": 81, "id": 223334}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298859904.5557289, "message": "@bmelton when was the last time you used ep.io?", "group_id": 81, "id": 223343}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298860478.6050739, "message": "bmelton - that's cool.  I'm not familiar w/docloud, I'll have to add that to my list to check out", "group_id": 81, "id": 223374}, {"user_id": 4077, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298859764.8546519, "message": "Having used ep.io, djangy and dotcloud, DotCloud is easily my favorite of the three.  If I had to bet on a winner in the space (recognizing fully that there can be more than one winner) -- DotCloud is the easy choice.", "group_id": 81, "id": 223336}, {"user_id": 4077, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298860724.3706551, "message": "It shares a lot of ideas with ep.io -- after you get an account, it uses SSH key auth (ala git), then it's `pip install dotcloud`; `dotcloud create appname.www`, `dotcloud deploy -t python appname.www`; `dotcloud push appname.www /path/to/source`.  Their nginx will automatically pull any static media in the 'static' folder and serve them as root, and a wsgi.py file bridges nginx to Django (or Flask, or web2py, or whatever).", "group_id": 81, "id": 223377}, {"user_id": 4077, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298860325.1140399, "message": "I don't have my own account there, but I was helping a friend with it about three weeks ago.  I don't mean to imply that I had any complaints with it -- it's nice.  DotCloud just supports, everything.  I've used the same dotcloud toolkit to throw together a Flask project, WordPress, Django, mysql, memcache, and Node.js (which I've only just touched on so far)", "group_id": 81, "id": 223370}, {"user_id": 8, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298870273.273345, "message": "think they were unable to raise and so they gave up", "group_id": 81, "id": 223613}, {"user_id": 1, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298870922.5244801, "message": "But seriously, with all this AngelList stuff, the hot market right now, the marketing they'd already done, etc. how could they not raise?", "group_id": 81, "id": 223667}, {"user_id": 1, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298870882.1831529, "message": "@zain I would be very surprised if they were unable to raise.  Their blog seems to say that they didn't want to raise.  You could be right though.", "group_id": 81, "id": 223664}, {"user_id": 539, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298871897.1820259, "user_id": 1}, {"date_created": 1298996483.7322359, "user_id": 592}], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298871842.220679, "message": "Well, they didn't have Mercurial support.", "group_id": 81, "id": 223704}, {"user_id": 8990, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298875378.073298, "message": "@ericflo no I had none. I wish i could have used this tool!", "group_id": 81, "id": 223888}, {"user_id": 8990, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298876757.922632, "user_id": 1}], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298876652.5132821, "message": "@ericflo thanks! i also came across your blog a while ago goodstuff!", "group_id": 81, "id": 223997}, {"user_id": 8990, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298875263.6302011, "message": "I just heard about this and i am pissed. shit! I hope its clever marketing ploy.", "group_id": 81, "id": 223881}, {"user_id": 1, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298875334.2316339, "message": "@myusuf3 Why so pissed?  Had a bunch of apps deployed on Djangy?", "group_id": 81, "id": 223886}, {"user_id": 1, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298875529.8068831, "message": "@myusuf3 Ahh it's OK, there are a bunch of others, check it out: https://convore.com/django-community/django-hosting-explosion/", "group_id": 81, "id": 223894}, {"user_id": 8740, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298892132.1783321, "user_id": 1081}], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298887871.121254, "message": "It's an odd decision, but one I can relate to; thankfully, I have enough personal funds to help bootstrap things at a faster rate, but if I were investing minimally in ep.io, it would have to grow incredibly slowly.", "group_id": 81, "id": 224713}, {"user_id": 8740, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298888053.820874, "user_id": 1}], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298887922.1582301, "message": "The main problem is that you get any customer income a while after you bought the server capacity you needed to run it. AWS somewhat helps, with their end-of-month billing, but there's still a disconnect there", "group_id": 81, "id": 224724}, {"user_id": 8740, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298888135.9821761, "message": "@bmelton Dotcloud and us (ep.io) are slightly different in what we offer, I think, but until they release their pricing strategy in more detail I won't be able to tell.", "group_id": 81, "id": 224735}, {"user_id": 4077, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298895633.606318, "message": "@andrewgodwin Yeah, price could be the killer. They're on EC2, so I almost expect them to be priced similarly to ep.io, but I think that they've said they'll be selling services with a flat monthly fee.", "group_id": 81, "id": 225106}, {"user_id": 8740, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298896394.9134381, "message": "@bmelton Yes, flat monthly fee is what we're avoiding (and we aim to offer an even cheaper service on dedicated servers in the near future)", "group_id": 81, "id": 225133}, {"user_id": 15517, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298909408.9629419, "message": "we (apphosted) do things a little different (seems to be similar to the other service ep.io will offer on dedicated servers) -- we will have a tiered flat monthly rate -- luckily we also have personal funding to prevent a djangy situation", "group_id": 81, "id": 226667}, {"user_id": 927, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298983763.88393, "message": "Hosting is a non-trivial commitment: I think they realized that they either needed to immediately expand to close to a 10-person shop (24x7 coverage + support eats time even before adding features) and there's enough competition now to cap rates, especially with the EC2/Rackspace + fabric baseline", "group_id": 81, "id": 234181}, {"user_id": 927, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298987006.1359069, "message": "@andrewgodwin 24-hour coverage requires 3 people unless you want to start working overtime; figure that people get sick / busy and you're at at least 4 people - and then you start bumping up again when if don't want to work every day of the week.", "group_id": 81, "id": 234554}, {"user_id": 927, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298987051.3956959, "message": "I'm not saying it can't be done for less but just that it's a tricky business to bootstrap since your customer demand ramps up very quickly, especially if you do your job well at first", "group_id": 81, "id": 234557}, {"user_id": 8740, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298986784.271574, "message": "Besides, once you've built your main tech stack, you kind of expect to start spending more time on support and outreach than on building whole new features", "group_id": 81, "id": 234538}, {"user_id": 8740, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298986744.78458, "message": "@acdha I wouldn't say you need 10 people; 24x7 is achievable with far less if you're happy with 10min response rather than 1min (if things die, I _do_ get woken up), and the baseline is circumventable once you get enough to start buying dedicated servers.", "group_id": 81, "id": 234529}, {"user_id": 8740, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298989767.3045311, "message": "@acdha It's a startup, overtime is factored into my calculations. It also helps that we have a mostly self-healing system, so if a machine dies, it's more a gentle meander towards fixing, rather than an emergency.", "group_id": 81, "id": 234925}, {"user_id": 8740, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298989780.649991, "message": "But you're right, it is tricky, and for the wrong person would be extremely stressful", "group_id": 81, "id": 234928}, {"user_id": 8740, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298996325.993516, "message": "there's ~30s of downtime for those sites, but that's faster than a manual sysadmin", "group_id": 81, "id": 235995}, {"user_id": 8740, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298996362.012346, "message": "if the monitoring server dies, that's a bit more urgent, as while it's down nobody can deploy any new sites, nor can we recover from another server dying", "group_id": 81, "id": 235999}, {"user_id": 4077, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298995501.4256079, "message": "@andrewgodwin Can you expand on that [self healing]?  How are you going about that?  Be as vague as you need to if you've got secrets to protect.", "group_id": 81, "id": 235939}, {"user_id": 8740, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1298996309.5750511, "message": "@bmelton In the sense that if one of our runner or upload servers dies (the majority), our monitoring systems detect it and move the sites that were on it to another one", "group_id": 81, "id": 235994}, {"user_id": 4077, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1299009931.8181441, "message": "Sounds splendid.  Are there any facilities in place for auto-scaling?  What I'd love to see is if the monitoring server detects load, it automatically spools up another instance and load balances them.", "group_id": 81, "id": 237680}, {"user_id": 927, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1299027017.4529359, "message": "I was also wondering: do you have a version rollback system for deployment failures? User error seems to be a much bigger source of downtime than your infrastructure?", "group_id": 81, "id": 242346}, {"user_id": 927, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1299026844.185792, "message": "@andrewgodwin Also gets into opportunity-cost: self-healing is hard, especially for the arbitrary problem of handling other people's code, and the supply of people like you is limited.", "group_id": 81, "id": 242335}, {"user_id": 13340, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1299047533.0782371, "message": "When I spoke with Dave and Sameer from Djangy at the Django meetup in San Francisco last November, they cited tech support as being one of their biggest challenges. They said that there were a lot more newbie questions than they had expected. It can be a fine line between providing hosting related support and providing a general Django support hotline.", "group_id": 81, "id": 245357}, {"user_id": 8740, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1299060352.535919, "message": "@acdha We do, in the sense that we can rollback what's at the tip of the release branch in the repo, and then re-deploy again. Deployment isn't as automated as I'd like, yet.", "group_id": 81, "id": 246060}, {"user_id": 8740, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1299060400.68859, "message": "@natea We've not had too much of that, though I expect it will increase as time goes on. I suspect the line can be drawn, albeit carefully.", "group_id": 81, "id": 246068}, {"user_id": 8740, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1299072453.696245, "message": "@acdha Yes, all customised software we install is done using our own debian repo. It keeps me sane.", "group_id": 81, "id": 246835}, {"user_id": 927, "stars": [], "topic_id": 9438, "date_created": 1299072212.6801431, "message": "@andrewgodwin Ah, I was wondering about that especially given the way the same code can fail to install due to something like a package server being down (one reason why I like to build & deploy .deb/.rpm archives)", "group_id": 81, "id": 246793}]