convore.json/groups/django-community/how-is-the-consulting-market-for-django/messages.json

[{"user_id": 7, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297456839.376545, "message": "based on the number of emails I get: non-zero :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 83156}, {"user_id": 774, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297459268.6474371, "message": "That's how it is in Toronto too, more demand then supply.", "group_id": 81, "id": 83579}, {"user_id": 1, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297456813.0863919, "message": "It's not bad at all, I hear people looking for Django consultants and developers *all the time*", "group_id": 81, "id": 83152}, {"user_id": 2024, "stars": [{"date_created": 1297457040.7511499, "user_id": 1}, {"date_created": 1297458620.456604, "user_id": 927}, {"date_created": 1297470063.0758181, "user_id": 208}], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297456931.9274521, "message": "Considering how much trouble I've had hiring Django developers full time in the past two years, I can't imagine it's all that bad.", "group_id": 81, "id": 83180}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297457369.0333281, "message": "@alex non zero, huh?", "group_id": 81, "id": 83236}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297456731.7980039, "message": "its that bad huh? :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 83138}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297457442.3846321, "message": "puts 'yes its a good market' unless email.count == 0", "group_id": 81, "id": 83253}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297457468.827311, "message": "@alex but they could be 100 recruiters all promoting the same job hehe", "group_id": 81, "id": 83260}, {"user_id": 927, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297458662.523716, "message": "I'm with @joshourisman: it's *hard* hiring Django devs, even when we have multiple well-paying gigs at a stable place. Consultants all seem to have more work than they can handle", "group_id": 81, "id": 83454}, {"user_id": 4156, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297457222.5827241, "message": "I get/got plenty of people approaching me asking if I'm available for consulting, and just being on the NYC local python/django lists I see tons of postings.", "group_id": 81, "id": 83210}, {"user_id": 7, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297457470.290977, "message": "\u0ca0_\u0ca0", "group_id": 81, "id": 83261}, {"user_id": 1736, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297459229.9574671, "message": "If you put up a sign advertising Django consulting in SoMa you would likely have a gig within an hour :-P", "group_id": 81, "id": 83575}, {"user_id": 7, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297457428.8161321, "message": "yes, a lot :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 83250}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297459555.000025, "message": "Django is gaining a lot of traction with media/entertainment related companies. In a number of big market cities (Atlanta, DC, Los Angeles, ...) demand is pretty high for knowledgeable Django people", "group_id": 81, "id": 83647}, {"user_id": 7, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297457382.6352761, "message": "@convy really non-zero :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 83237}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297457410.2988701, "message": "I don't understand what that is a response too, you get non-zero emails? meaning you GET emails?", "group_id": 81, "id": 83246}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297458763.7372749, "message": "i'm not referring to FT work, contract/consulting.", "group_id": 81, "id": 83465}, {"user_id": 927, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297458937.90241, "message": "@convy: both are *swamped*. At our local user group meetings, we'll always have people who are hiring, looking for other consultants to split work, looking to hire contractors, etc.", "group_id": 81, "id": 83495}, {"user_id": 6439, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297458962.9408901, "message": "We're usually too busy at @revsys in any given month and it's only getting busier, which is great for anyone with Django skills these days and certainly into the foreseeable future.", "group_id": 81, "id": 83502}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297460160.417829, "message": "I just got a hold of rails/capistrano and some iphone dev, django is caught my eye after reading about the setup at disqus", "group_id": 81, "id": 83833}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297459691.1206329, "message": "surprised, more agencies should pickup django for its RAD capabilities.", "group_id": 81, "id": 83679}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297459364.2558379, "message": "@defrex I'm in toronto, didn't know there was much of a django community", "group_id": 81, "id": 83602}, {"user_id": 774, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297459380.5629771, "message": "modest but active: http://groups.google.com/group/django-toronto?pli=1", "group_id": 81, "id": 83605}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297460382.033632, "message": "every client we've worked with has approached us based on our Django experience", "group_id": 81, "id": 83888}, {"user_id": 1736, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297461037.7459149, "message": "@convy +1 on that, I don't touch the stuff, but you can always just go get a soda and chill", "group_id": 81, "id": 84061}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297459755.1500039, "message": "@defrex wave looks interesting, i like saas", "group_id": 81, "id": 83695}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297460309.250737, "message": "what I don't get is, most people who need a project done don't really care about the framework no?", "group_id": 81, "id": 83865}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297461330.5942559, "message": "the python and django meetups in LA are in offices - much more academic feel. funny how much diff. the setting makes for people's experiences", "group_id": 81, "id": 84147}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297459870.2566371, "message": "@defrex thanks for the help", "group_id": 81, "id": 83728}, {"user_id": 1874, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297459238.1780341, "message": "I'd love to find some FT work in the states ... visa stuff is just such a drag :P", "group_id": 81, "id": 83577}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297459712.67382, "message": "If you can get to PyCon, DjangoCon, or your nearest Meetup chances are you'll bump into people looking for serious help", "group_id": 81, "id": 83682}, {"user_id": 1736, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297461190.336688, "message": "I understand the complaints of people that \"github is the new resume\" is unfair to a lot of people, but on the other hand dem's da' breaks.", "group_id": 81, "id": 84109}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297459856.687614, "message": "@coderanger that's also marketing i.e. we are hot", "group_id": 81, "id": 83722}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297460316.7104521, "message": "I guess it depends on the client.", "group_id": 81, "id": 83866}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297460449.2832589, "message": "@unbracketed but is there a reason for that? i.e they found you via a django conference or django related blog post?", "group_id": 81, "id": 83906}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297460997.820189, "message": "i just wish meetups were not always at bars", "group_id": 81, "id": 84046}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297459579.770139, "message": "@defrex i don't like FT, i prefer contract (but long term)", "group_id": 81, "id": 83654}, {"user_id": 774, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297459957.539079, "message": "@convy, np", "group_id": 81, "id": 83760}, {"user_id": 774, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297461265.4771969, "message": "@convy the toronto meetup is only sometimes at a bar. Often it's a http://socialinnovation.ca/", "group_id": 81, "id": 84131}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297461397.085335, "message": "@defrex that's great to know!", "group_id": 81, "id": 84165}, {"user_id": 774, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297459621.1010809, "message": "wave is long term contract", "group_id": 81, "id": 83665}, {"user_id": 774, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297459449.4316549, "message": "freshbooks, wave accounting, and gap adventures are all looking actively", "group_id": 81, "id": 83625}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297460357.2426159, "message": "maybe business-types, but even then they seem to have an opinion these days", "group_id": 81, "id": 83877}, {"user_id": 774, "stars": [{"date_created": 1297459426.3237829, "user_id": 1}], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297459399.1754949, "message": "meetups every month, with someone offering a job most months", "group_id": 81, "id": 83613}, {"user_id": 1736, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297459826.6004291, "message": "+1 for jobs at PyCon. The number of talks that don't end with \"and we're hiring\" is usually in the single digits", "group_id": 81, "id": 83717}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297459622.8747461, "message": "A lot of these companies (that I'm aware of) are willing to work with contractors", "group_id": 81, "id": 83666}, {"user_id": 774, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297459785.9915869, "message": "send me an email aron@ideasylum.com and I'll hook you up", "group_id": 81, "id": 83707}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297460884.007175, "message": "@convy Being active in the community in general carries a lot of weight IMO", "group_id": 81, "id": 84018}, {"user_id": 6366, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297460988.356899, "message": "DJ Ango is a good DJ", "group_id": 81, "id": 84043}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297460263.694627, "message": "@convy There are a handful of \"top tier\" agencies (if only by virtue of being early adopters) and AFAICT they're all swamped at the moment. I'm not aware of what the field looks like for \"up-and-coming\" groups but it seems like there is room out there for more Django-centric shops", "group_id": 81, "id": 83858}, {"user_id": 1736, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297460997.8571551, "message": "@unbracketed Also having code to backup your claims of awesomeness :-)", "group_id": 81, "id": 84047}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297460459.1338921, "message": "...which generally makes that part of the pre-sales a breeze :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 83908}, {"user_id": 6366, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297461012.1346459, "message": "hey guyz", "group_id": 81, "id": 84053}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297461390.168797, "message": "@unbracketed exactly", "group_id": 81, "id": 84158}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297460938.979598, "message": "attending confs/meetups, writing, presenting, answering Q's on groups/SO/IRC, etc..", "group_id": 81, "id": 84027}, {"user_id": 774, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297461295.983387, "message": "I meant at, CSI is a place.", "group_id": 81, "id": 84139}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297460976.7982681, "message": "yup, I know that part :)  so far I really like the community", "group_id": 81, "id": 84040}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297461014.410161, "message": "(not into drinking)", "group_id": 81, "id": 84054}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297461134.283319, "message": "@coderanger totally. we've started trying to track down people on github who have relevant projects rather than sift through 200 resumes", "group_id": 81, "id": 84089}, {"user_id": 1398, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297463958.723053, "message": "There is a lot of Django consulting and career work. Take your pick, do well in an interview, and you quickly have more than you can handle. Which is turning out to be an exhausting but happy problem.", "group_id": 81, "id": 84458}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [{"date_created": 1299776968.007962, "user_id": 4936}], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297563776.7655189, "message": "@pydanny that's a problem that one can live with :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 88000}, {"user_id": 7, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297568527.808502, "message": "yeah actually, go tone yesterday from someone who (startup in the uK) that needs people", "group_id": 81, "id": 88194}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297568377.6708159, "message": "@alex any more emails lately?  your inbox is the guage", "group_id": 81, "id": 88190}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297570276.5546811, "message": "how do they find you?", "group_id": 81, "id": 88210}, {"user_id": 7, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297570436.3325901, "message": "I'm pretty visible, my email is completely public", "group_id": 81, "id": 88215}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297571380.662677, "message": "yes, but how do they find your email, is it on django's site or what? :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 88220}, {"user_id": 7, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297571406.0825119, "message": "its on my blog", "group_id": 81, "id": 88221}, {"user_id": 7, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297571416.0800481, "message": "its also rather guessable: first.last@gmail.com", "group_id": 81, "id": 88222}, {"user_id": 1736, "stars": [{"date_created": 1297716593.9153409, "user_id": 10197}], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297577518.7345359, "message": "Alex is rather prolific in the Django community, he hosts the popular Django Dose podcast (along @ericflo), is a core committer, does a lot of work with Eldarion (a major Django consulting startup), speaks at a good number of conferences.", "group_id": 81, "id": 88364}, {"user_id": 1736, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297577532.5198519, "message": "(I think thats what you were asking at least)", "group_id": 81, "id": 88365}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297602138.4790959, "message": "@coderanger yes thanks for the background, I think that is more of a reason than first.last@gmail.com :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 90526}, {"user_id": 5177, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297760778.438921, "message": "On the other side of the pond (UK) it seems very London centric (ain't it always!?) but with pockets of adoption in Bristol & Bath and Oxford as well.", "group_id": 81, "id": 109877}, {"user_id": 5177, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297760834.6076181, "message": "It's hard to find out who is using django in the UK apart from many of the big London users, who have recruited or did recruit high profile djangonauts", "group_id": 81, "id": 109878}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297781503.9636691, "message": "@danhilton i have no idea what you just said, its hot or not? :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 111827}, {"user_id": 7378, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297783333.5604801, "message": "Obviously, if loads of people start consulting its value goes down and the rates you can charge go with it... unless you're high profile. Django consulting used to be awesome when you were only 1 of 2 or 3 consultants in the UK who'd had enough experience with it.", "group_id": 81, "id": 112170}, {"user_id": 7378, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297783214.210582, "message": "@convy there's enough work in the UK for contractors, though I used to do most of my work for US companies. Hiring permanent staff is always a pain in the ass for django roles, but most of the time I'll hire decent software engineers (regardless of language) and that works out better).", "group_id": 81, "id": 112155}, {"user_id": 5177, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297783906.9989181, "message": "@convy It's hot in terms of people using it and stuff happening, but consulting gigs / freelance opportunities are few and far between. Mainly agency stuff rather than say start-ups / direct digital companies.", "group_id": 81, "id": 112250}, {"user_id": 218, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297784529.7936101, "message": "In NYC, there are 3+ companies at every meeting looking to hire people.", "group_id": 81, "id": 112299}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297787374.854888, "message": "what kind of hourly rates do you see? (as sub-contractors that work for a consulting company not hired directly via the client)", "group_id": 81, "id": 112577}, {"user_id": 218, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297787524.342936, "message": "I could be completely off, but I would *guess* 50-70/hr?", "group_id": 81, "id": 112589}, {"user_id": 205, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297796044.1855879, "message": "For an experienced Django dev, I would assume $100/hr or more", "group_id": 81, "id": 113664}, {"user_id": 218, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297797539.0865531, "message": "as a subcontractor?", "group_id": 81, "id": 113922}, {"user_id": 205, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297796068.0585599, "message": "specialized knowledge and what not", "group_id": 81, "id": 113666}, {"user_id": 218, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297797562.316947, "message": "What do you think the actual company would be charging? 150-200/hr?", "group_id": 81, "id": 113926}, {"user_id": 1736, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297797709.181021, "message": "/me suddenly wonders why he is still making games for a living.", "group_id": 81, "id": 113968}, {"user_id": 1736, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297798387.8577571, "message": "@convy No, MMOs, Champions Online and Star Trek Online (and eventually Neverwinter)", "group_id": 81, "id": 114074}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297798310.658391, "message": "@coderanger can I see a game u've made? web based I presume?", "group_id": 81, "id": 114066}, {"user_id": 3705, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297819837.3626261, "message": "@coderanger Gimmie phat l00tz now! XD", "group_id": 81, "id": 117080}, {"user_id": 3705, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297819947.7465601, "message": "@coderanger There's Python in those codebases?", "group_id": 81, "id": 117082}, {"user_id": 1736, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297821156.2110269, "message": "@edwardw Not in the games, I'm also fluent in C ;-)", "group_id": 81, "id": 117207}, {"user_id": 927, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297822382.9038019, "message": "Ugh, botched the math there - used to use 2:1 (\u2248 $100K salary) for a full-time gig, adjusted up a bit for short-term and rather more so for US health care buyers who can't mooch off of a spouse's corporate plan", "group_id": 81, "id": 117247}, {"user_id": 927, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297822110.840627, "message": "I'm even more extreme than @ericholscher: unless you're in a city well off the beaten path, $100/hour for a good developer in any language is a steal: that's roughly equivalent to $50K salaried unless they're tossing in benefits.", "group_id": 81, "id": 117240}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [{"date_created": 1297840369.0189071, "user_id": 3705}], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297824452.2465019, "message": "Those numbers sound a bit inflated to me. The actual cost of a contractor to an agency is usually quite a bit higher, if not double their hourly rate when you account for overhead, benefits, etc. I don't pay too much attention to what the other agencies are billing at but I'd be surprised if there are more than a few charging enough to justify paying contractors $100/hr and still making any profit. @justinlilly's range is more in line with my understanding of the overall market.", "group_id": 81, "id": 117337}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [{"date_created": 1297840356.5370979, "user_id": 3705}], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297832237.3385041, "message": "in case you mist this gem: http://blog.asmartbear.com/consulting-company-accounting.html", "group_id": 81, "id": 117697}, {"user_id": 1183, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297852801.917228, "message": "Great information here, thanks all for sharing", "group_id": 81, "id": 118850}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297875521.2819941, "message": "We (Lincoln Loop) operate as a distributed/virtual company so no office space costs, but communication/collaboration are always challenges and add some overhead - especially across several time zones.", "group_id": 81, "id": 121373}, {"user_id": 6439, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297880015.462728, "message": "Actually I'm more with @ericholscher on this.  Good Django devs tend to range from $75-$125/hr in my experience.", "group_id": 81, "id": 122171}, {"user_id": 7378, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297887979.467762, "message": "I agree with @ericholscher and @frankwiles", "group_id": 81, "id": 123828}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297889348.6983509, "message": "I read as a consultant, you should expect to bill 1500 hours/year i.e. not 40/week become of downtime and time for admin tasks/marketing etc.   true?", "group_id": 81, "id": 124078}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297890215.2162621, "message": "As you get more established those concerns evaporate. We do zero marketing and are constantly turning down big contracts because we're happy with our current size and booked out for a while", "group_id": 81, "id": 124296}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297889359.6619301, "message": "or at least expect to spend 20/week doing those things", "group_id": 81, "id": 124082}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297889969.4358051, "message": "I think that's pretty good advice for people getting started. You might even plan on 1000/1250 to be safe, with anything else considered gravy. Things happen - you go over budget on a project, a potential client disappears into the ether, etc.", "group_id": 81, "id": 124224}, {"user_id": 927, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297893079.934823, "message": "Oh, also: be prepared to have *significant* delays getting payments from clients", "group_id": 81, "id": 125066}, {"user_id": 927, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297893122.2317121, "message": "I've had one client which is currently in some sort of receivership, meaning we still haven't been paid for work down in 2009.", "group_id": 81, "id": 125090}, {"user_id": 927, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297893161.3761621, "message": "Yes: and be prepared to stop work if they don't meet a deadline", "group_id": 81, "id": 125106}, {"user_id": 927, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297892286.4145191, "message": "@convy Getting started, yes, and the other thing you need is to make sure that you have sizable cash reserves (a year's expenses is a good default) in case you have a dry spot (consultants are the first ditched when business sours) or something happens which makes it hard for you to work for awhile (health, personal life, legal hassles, etc.)", "group_id": 81, "id": 124845}, {"user_id": 927, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297892314.074903, "message": "Underestimating your revenue for the first year is a great way to bulk up your reserves", "group_id": 81, "id": 124855}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297893502.385361, "message": "The actual timeline can be affected tremendously if the client is blocking on issues", "group_id": 81, "id": 125223}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297892980.8540909, "message": "idea = ideal", "group_id": 81, "id": 125016}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297893126.8909991, "message": "or have a policy like 40/40/20", "group_id": 81, "id": 125094}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297892972.355829, "message": "I think the idea setup is when customers come to YOU i.e. a product that requires customization by nature that you own (even if it is open source)", "group_id": 81, "id": 125012}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297892926.690393, "message": "@unbracketed another key is to push out new work around 2 months in advance right?", "group_id": 81, "id": 125004}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297893331.6347809, "message": "Timing of schedules is probably the biggest constant struggle", "group_id": 81, "id": 125171}, {"user_id": 927, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297893574.407994, "message": "and it requires a lot of patience and diplomacy to push back if they're trying to overlook delays on their side", "group_id": 81, "id": 125244}, {"user_id": 1736, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297907106.1199441, "message": "@convy http://lincolnloop.com/team/", "group_id": 81, "id": 128275}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297906596.191766, "message": "@unbracketed how many peeps in u'r co.", "group_id": 81, "id": 128145}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297909823.74474, "message": "+ a couple more... (long overdue site update coming soon...)", "group_id": 81, "id": 128757}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297910114.143229, "message": "where school = school + all the mind-blowing pieces of code and writing he always churns out :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 128803}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297910061.9517109, "message": "yeah he was helping us out for a while last year but got busy with school again", "group_id": 81, "id": 128793}, {"user_id": 1736, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1297909991.645771, "message": "@unbracketed Yeah, wondering where @mitsuhiko was :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 128780}, {"user_id": 12619, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1298141563.495898, "message": "At least tangentially on-topic, I have no significant programming education, and have learned only enough PHP to do somewhat custom things with Wordpress, and enough VBA (Excel) to make my 8-9 daily hours of spreadsheet manipulation slightly less horrifying. I'm finding time to learn Python (as in, right now), with the intent to pick up Django. Knowing that, and assuming I am merely not an idiot, how long at this pace before I'm employable as a Django helper person? (Yes, I know: it's a borderline trolling question.)", "group_id": 81, "id": 150165}, {"user_id": 6559, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1298140665.8422911, "message": "haha", "group_id": 81, "id": 150123}, {"user_id": 927, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1298143173.2613831, "message": "@muraii That depends on the place and how much you need to make to consider a career change: if you're getting up to speed with HTML & JavaScript, there are usually places which will take someone motivated who's willing to start at an entry-level job doing templating, test, etc. I've rarely regretted hiring someone like that", "group_id": 81, "id": 150263}, {"user_id": 12619, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1298141998.432339, "message": "@issackelly That sits well with my intuition. I'd figure I'm about a year out from legitimately working even freelance, given that I'll be learning more about web development, Python, and Django part-time.", "group_id": 81, "id": 150196}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1298141781.509599, "message": "muraii: Obviously YMMV, but for me, it was 6 months, as a dedicated web programmer before that, full stack PHP/MySQL, etc.", "group_id": 81, "id": 150183}, {"user_id": 927, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1298143315.668932, "message": "I'd also recommend one nice way to get started: pick an open-source project and contribute some docs, troubleshooting, etc. It's a good way to learn and you get a broad experience pretty quickly, which helps decide where you might want to go deeper.", "group_id": 81, "id": 150271}, {"user_id": 12619, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1298145823.5412991, "message": "As to the discussion of the market, I'd suggest if you're not already subscribed to a search on Authentic Jobs (http://authenticjobs.com), you may want to sign up. I've been subscribed for a year-and-a-half, and even though I'm not qualified, it gives me an idea of demand. Python and Django openings come up about weekly, though since the domain is all web development, there are lots of other opportunities, too.", "group_id": 81, "id": 150416}, {"user_id": 12619, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1298143572.897176, "message": "@acdha Great advice. I have some serious constraints, e.g., I'm the primary bread-winner for my family, so the mortgage, car payments, etc. factor into the flexibility of a move. I know enough HTML and CSS to get by (everything on my blog is from-scratch, simple as it is), and very little JavaScript. One of the other things I'd like to do with Python, to your point about open-source, is contribute to Sage (math application). Appreciate your reply.", "group_id": 81, "id": 150285}, {"user_id": 927, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1298143718.988096, "message": "@muraii I'd strongly recommend volunteering to help the project - even without writing a line of code, most projects would love to have some help with ticket management or docs and that can frequently prove more educational than you'd expect if e.g. you're trying to provide a better explanation for why something doesn't behave the way you'd expect", "group_id": 81, "id": 150302}, {"user_id": 12747, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1298230442.6855431, "message": "What is typical in terms of upfront pay?  Are most contracts contingent on performance?", "group_id": 81, "id": 154504}, {"user_id": 592, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1298231365.9199581, "message": "But generally invoicing at least once a month if the work lasts longer than a month.", "group_id": 81, "id": 154562}, {"user_id": 592, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1298231212.7515659, "message": "@williamratcliff I'm not sure how you would measure \u201cperformance\u201d in this case", "group_id": 81, "id": 154540}, {"user_id": 592, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1298231326.465836, "message": "Generally speaking I do the work and submit invoices to the client afterwards", "group_id": 81, "id": 154553}, {"user_id": 13222, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1298234668.4473989, "message": "This is a very interesting topic. Sounds like I need to get some stuff out on github. I'm currently looking for some part-time consulting using Django, so if anyone wants to pass along my info, please feel free: gkelly@gmail.com. I'll be at PyCon too.", "group_id": 81, "id": 154725}, {"user_id": 12747, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1298246037.2737081, "message": "@dougal by customer satisfaction, or do you go by a spec?", "group_id": 81, "id": 155161}, {"user_id": 592, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1298247629.499696, "message": "@williamratcliff I think you have to go by the spec.", "group_id": 81, "id": 155205}, {"user_id": 6894, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1298271202.8269899, "message": "I'm also looking for 10-20 hours/week remote freelance work. Just signed up to authenticjobs. Where else should I look? I've got 3yrs full-time Django experience but I'm running out of weekend projects...", "group_id": 81, "id": 156977}, {"user_id": 7179, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1298304185.538662, "message": "@craigds you may create your profile on djangogigs.com, I get contacted all the time from there.", "group_id": 81, "id": 159527}, {"user_id": 6894, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1298316002.8650279, "message": "aha! I knew there must be a site like that around ... Cheers", "group_id": 81, "id": 163649}, {"user_id": 218, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1298320261.621753, "message": "@craigds send out a message to the django-nyc group. say you're loooking for 10-20 hrs/wk of remote freelance work. If anyone has info, let you know.", "group_id": 81, "id": 167452}, {"user_id": 218, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1298320274.208802, "message": "Likely the same for django-LA or any other django group", "group_id": 81, "id": 167455}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1299093275.0773289, "message": "active ones at least :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 251887}, {"user_id": 19507, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1299559397.8528409, "message": "I think the market for Django skills is very hot. I get several emails a week generally. It doesn't mean that those turn into gigs or are even good clients, but there is definitely demand out there.", "group_id": 81, "id": 293666}, {"user_id": 19507, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1299559212.1967931, "message": "@convy hey, Dimitri from Wave Accounting checking in. We are hiring!", "group_id": 81, "id": 293639}, {"user_id": 12142, "stars": [{"date_created": 1299776985.905602, "user_id": 4936}, {"date_created": 1299814658.979475, "user_id": 5734}], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1299649157.8755641, "message": "When recruiters contact you and you already have too much work,  do everyone a favor like I do: tell them you charge 2-3 times what you actually charge", "group_id": 81, "id": 302220}, {"user_id": 3354, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1299651447.8327401, "message": "Nice idea.", "group_id": 81, "id": 302280}, {"user_id": 3354, "stars": [{"date_created": 1299783373.68836, "user_id": 5852}, {"date_created": 1302281253.2132649, "user_id": 12002}], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1299651534.2227769, "message": "Reminds me of the old joke: \"Can I have two apples please?\" \"That'll be a dollar\" \"But Jim's apples are only a quarter each\" \"Go buy his, then\" \"I can't, he hasn't got any\" \"Yeah, ours are a quarter when we haven't got any.\"", "group_id": 81, "id": 302286}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1299682373.899133, "message": "i.e. 100-150/hr range.", "group_id": 81, "id": 305195}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [{"date_created": 1299734224.583128, "user_id": 5778}], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1299682429.194731, "message": "which generally means you get better clients, and more interesting work (ideally anyhow!)", "group_id": 81, "id": 305218}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1299682334.006742, "message": "I love development, and also like to get compensated for it, need to combine the two together :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 305178}, {"user_id": 5778, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1299734357.799181, "message": "it weeded out some of the crazies", "group_id": 81, "id": 311078}, {"user_id": 5778, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1299734365.910218, "message": "now I only get serious people", "group_id": 81, "id": 311081}, {"user_id": 5778, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1299734368.9942999, "message": "it's awesome :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 311082}, {"user_id": 5778, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1299734326.5478859, "message": "they didn't want to pay for anything", "group_id": 81, "id": 311074}, {"user_id": 5778, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1299734334.600451, "message": "and it was just miserable all around", "group_id": 81, "id": 311075}, {"user_id": 5778, "stars": [{"date_created": 1299771537.1910701, "user_id": 1081}], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1299734314.1386261, "message": "what I got instead was a bunch of quacks who just heard about the Internet and thought a web page would solve all of their problems", "group_id": 81, "id": 311072}, {"user_id": 5778, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1299734352.174417, "message": "once I realized that my price tag was probably partly to blame, I bumped it up", "group_id": 81, "id": 311076}, {"user_id": 5778, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1299734268.9973581, "message": "@convy Amen to that. I used to undersell myself when I was a student (even though I had a decade of experience in Web dev) because I thought it would get me a lot of fun projects.", "group_id": 81, "id": 311069}, {"user_id": 5778, "stars": [{"date_created": 1299771540.1399629, "user_id": 1081}], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1299734320.7283881, "message": "in the end, they had no idea what they wanted", "group_id": 81, "id": 311073}, {"user_id": 5778, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1299734362.0084291, "message": "I bumped it up some more", "group_id": 81, "id": 311080}, {"user_id": 5778, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1299787023.8047709, "message": "just having a hard time finding the time to get it all done!", "group_id": 81, "id": 315838}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1299786390.7228, "message": "how do get clients? is it your nginx 502 gate error page? j/k", "group_id": 81, "id": 315763}, {"user_id": 5778, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1299787612.933753, "message": "and I still missed some fairly generous deadlines", "group_id": 81, "id": 315904}, {"user_id": 5778, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1299787703.541085, "message": "@convy indeed", "group_id": 81, "id": 315918}, {"user_id": 5778, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1299787570.6697609, "message": "problem is it's not because I'm too busy with freelance work; I'm too busy with my day job", "group_id": 81, "id": 315899}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [{"date_created": 1299798813.745764, "user_id": 1}], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1299787198.8931041, "message": "that's actually a marketing ploy, make your site so crappy and say your too busy to improve it :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 315860}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [{"date_created": 1302281296.942996, "user_id": 12002}], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1299787685.45859, "message": "your employer owns the code!", "group_id": 81, "id": 315914}, {"user_id": 5778, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1299787541.7678871, "message": "@convy hah, good call. I think that's what I'll start telling people :D", "group_id": 81, "id": 315894}, {"user_id": 5778, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1299787012.744503, "message": "@convy lol, thanks for the heads up... been working on a revamped version of my site that can actually handle a little load", "group_id": 81, "id": 315835}, {"user_id": 5778, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1299787656.134398, "message": "giving a demo of phase 1 of the project in about an hour, actually :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 315909}, {"user_id": 5778, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1299787629.3987241, "message": "gotta love it when requirements change mid-project...", "group_id": 81, "id": 315905}, {"user_id": 5778, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1299787601.2384601, "message": "I have a huge project on my plate, and I've been working on it from ~10:30 am - ~3:30 am almost every day for the past month", "group_id": 81, "id": 315903}, {"user_id": 5778, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1299787636.171663, "message": "over and over and over and over and.....", "group_id": 81, "id": 315906}, {"user_id": 5749, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1299810464.7591209, "message": "not that I wouldn't totally be down for that too", "group_id": 81, "id": 318709}, {"user_id": 5749, "stars": [{"date_created": 1302281311.147475, "user_id": 12002}], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1299810400.4973049, "message": "@convy I'm late to the discussion, but we meet at a pub because it's a free venue. Plenty of people don't drink, and they've got decent food. It's just a building that happens to serve alcohol (like most establishments in the city, I would wager). It's not like we're going to some shady hole in the wall and shooting hard liquor whilst discussing Django ;)", "group_id": 81, "id": 318703}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1300740555.10359, "message": "whenever I browse CL for positions by searching for python/django, I see salaries like 50-55K...is it that bad?", "group_id": 81, "id": 402480}, {"user_id": 4219, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1300740567.6730959, "message": "(toronto area)", "group_id": 81, "id": 402482}, {"user_id": 594, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1300862588.7401659, "message": "@convoy: Unless your salaries are way different from around here, they're trying to save money by hiring the bottom tier who work for less.", "group_id": 81, "id": 414903}, {"user_id": 7376, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1300991936.3057041, "message": "are the rates on here for how much a client would pay the firm or how much the sub-contractor is getting from the firm?", "group_id": 81, "id": 429597}, {"user_id": 19507, "stars": [{"date_created": 1302470328.708765, "user_id": 15343}], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1302367485.9155259, "message": "@convy The salary heavily depends on your employer. CL attracts cheap employers and they are not willing to pay decent rates. I would say 70-90/year is closer to truth", "group_id": 81, "id": 603122}, {"user_id": 15343, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1302470381.8194709, "message": "70-90/year depending on skills, experience, and talent (mid-senior)", "group_id": 81, "id": 613950}, {"user_id": 927, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1302521551.018425, "message": "@undefined The other factor is simply that the cheapskates end up looking longer so you're going to see their postings for a long time compared to a good position with decent pay", "group_id": 81, "id": 623013}, {"user_id": 14305, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1306493579.228976, "message": "what's up guys, thanks for the great discussion up here. i'm looking to get into FT python/django development, looking for a team to join. currently touring NE-Am region to find one, route has toronto, nyc, cleveland, atlanta on it. anyone looking for a guy want to have lunch, dinner, walk in the park, office meet or whatnot and see what's cookin'?", "group_id": 81, "id": 1203581}, {"user_id": 14305, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1306493708.6363001, "message": "i'm in toronto right now, planning to leave for nyc late monday night (05/30)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1203602}, {"user_id": 960, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1306625658.3095601, "message": "@lkraav FYI: cox media has been looking for Django devs in Atlanta for some time. Last I heard they were still looking a few weeks back.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1215202}, {"user_id": 14305, "stars": [], "topic_id": 4378, "date_created": 1306884049.4731121, "message": "thanks for all the good contacts in toronto. located 20 minutes from cleveland, oh now for some upcoming days, hit me up if youre in the area!", "group_id": 81, "id": 1244449}]