convore.json/groups/django-community/minimum-required-skill-set-for-a-django-developer/messages.json

[{"user_id": 1398, "stars": [{"date_created": 1302248764.070461, "user_id": 13893}], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301595689.585428, "message": "I would want basic Python and HTML skills. Plus good communication.", "group_id": 81, "id": 494464}, {"user_id": 26100, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301595573.95925, "message": "Read this as \"What would you expect a junior hire to know?\" or \"What would you expect a non-junior hire to know?\"", "group_id": 81, "id": 494438}, {"user_id": 26100, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301595860.534384, "message": "More background: I'm looking to set up an internal checklist for developers looking to move into web development positions (including Django)", "group_id": 81, "id": 494506}, {"user_id": 1398, "stars": [{"date_created": 1301616876.9178419, "user_id": 4375}, {"date_created": 1301668231.8163819, "user_id": 13912}, {"date_created": 1301779202.1230149, "user_id": 1264}, {"date_created": 1301910014.9234011, "user_id": 22944}, {"date_created": 1302458188.664022, "user_id": 15343}], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301597113.3904009, "message": "Giant checklists end up looking like the advertisements for J2EE positions.", "group_id": 81, "id": 494685}, {"user_id": 14024, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301595833.010391, "message": "@pydanny is probably right, Django is \"just\" a framework (though a bit more) but Python is what you would have to know. HTML is a basic for everything regarding web development.", "group_id": 81, "id": 494500}, {"user_id": 14024, "stars": [{"date_created": 1302458159.5861909, "user_id": 15343}], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301595781.5066731, "message": "If I was to hire a developer I would want to see how one uses his/her tools. Also I would want to see how she/he debugs stuff. As soon as someone is good at debugging, I think he/she can learn everything. (I am not responsible for any hiring at all).", "group_id": 81, "id": 494489}, {"user_id": 26100, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301595973.3253601, "message": "I'm curious what the community feels is assumed knowledge.", "group_id": 81, "id": 494524}, {"user_id": 14024, "stars": [{"date_created": 1301596583.1797309, "user_id": 209}, {"date_created": 1301610391.4939461, "user_id": 12966}, {"date_created": 1301668220.6147039, "user_id": 13912}], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301595977.212908, "message": "Knowledge of the protocol (HTTP) should be a requirement: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypertext_Transfer_Protocol", "group_id": 81, "id": 494525}, {"user_id": 26100, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301597477.8911541, "message": "@pydanny I totally agree, but at the same time, would you expect a dev to know SQL? There is a set of assumed knowledge that I would like to be able to communicate.", "group_id": 81, "id": 494766}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301598147.212713, "message": "So, I knew MVC concepts, SQL, HTTP, and JavaScript.  No Python at all, and none of the Django framework", "group_id": 81, "id": 494841}, {"user_id": 26100, "stars": [{"date_created": 1302713190.0716181, "user_id": 7179}], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301597523.5654769, "message": "I found this: http://www.reddit.com/r/django/comments/dx97m/django_experts_what_would_you_expect_a_new/c13m31r Which is an interesting list at least.", "group_id": 81, "id": 494775}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301598096.0693951, "message": "It's tough, it really depends on their background.  My background was PHP pre-django", "group_id": 81, "id": 494834}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301598204.2477341, "message": "Someone else might know Python and SQL, but not HTTP or MVC.  I don't know that I could easily pick from the two", "group_id": 81, "id": 494846}, {"user_id": 13325, "stars": [{"date_created": 1301599557.4873979, "user_id": 1822}, {"date_created": 1301603647.271553, "user_id": 17897}, {"date_created": 1301611034.722997, "user_id": 1398}], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301599057.6163371, "message": "Find a good developer. They can learn the rest.", "group_id": 81, "id": 494937}, {"user_id": 17897, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301603669.6979899, "message": "Although you probably won't be able to hire him as a junior.", "group_id": 81, "id": 495941}, {"user_id": 25337, "stars": [{"date_created": 1301611051.29478, "user_id": 1398}, {"date_created": 1301616904.595686, "user_id": 4375}], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301604587.7176991, "message": "I'd try and hire an intelligent developer. My rule of thumb is to never hire anyone who's less smart than I am. (This is a depressingly low barrier to entry ;) Intelligent folks can get up to speed quickly; if they're a permanent employee, you're going to be investing in them anyway. Temp/contract is different, of course.", "group_id": 81, "id": 496162}, {"user_id": 25337, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301604606.195765, "message": "The same applies for juniors; smarts != experience, after all.", "group_id": 81, "id": 496172}, {"user_id": 26100, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301598574.6396041, "message": "These are all great points, I think the topic would be better rephrased, \"As a Django developer, what parts of the framework and what skills do you use every day?\"", "group_id": 81, "id": 494879}, {"user_id": 13806, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301612760.0580189, "message": "I have a similar question. Whats the minimum required skill set to become a junior Django developer for someone with little development background? Besides python/django this is what I see as requirements, basic Unix commands & concepts (users, permissions, daemons, ssh, sftp, etc...), basic html, css & photoshop, basic understanding of RDBMS (normalization etc). Javascript is nice but is it required for a jr position? How do you find out if its a good jr dev? Is some code on github/bitbucket a must? How much and what code?", "group_id": 81, "id": 497453}, {"user_id": 26100, "stars": [{"date_created": 1301616616.5872519, "user_id": 13806}], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301613375.9352069, "message": "@pydanny what skills do you use day-to-day that, were you mentoring a junior developer, you would treat as needed for them to drop the \"junior\" from their title?", "group_id": 81, "id": 497535}, {"user_id": 1398, "stars": [{"date_created": 1301613071.123472, "user_id": 13806}, {"date_created": 1301666030.5820291, "user_id": 1243}, {"date_created": 1301779294.1690731, "user_id": 1264}], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301612863.9137101, "message": "@Orion - my take is that a Junior Developer has no skills except maybe a knowledge of Python and HTML. The rest is up to the boss/mentor to impart and the Junior to learn on the job. Hence the term, 'junior'", "group_id": 81, "id": 497466}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301616073.7321589, "message": "Also for consideration: data formats and data management (JSON/XML/SQL/text files, etc.) Understanding how to work with each and what trade-offs are", "group_id": 81, "id": 497812}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301616178.2616711, "message": "Comfortable writing complete and concise technical documentation (not always as easy as it might seem)", "group_id": 81, "id": 497828}, {"user_id": 1398, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301615890.5829649, "message": "A basic knowledge of normalization too.", "group_id": 81, "id": 497801}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [{"date_created": 1302394742.012536, "user_id": 4581}], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301616091.9886639, "message": "Understanding of Python packaging and environments", "group_id": 81, "id": 497814}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301616571.300755, "message": "Fellow developers, project managers, customers, investors, etc all have very different needs w.r.t. the type of information that needs to be communicated.", "group_id": 81, "id": 497858}, {"user_id": 1398, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301615853.2582951, "message": "For a Django dev? Pep-8, Python, Django, Django shortcuts, OO Design, basic linux skills, knowledge of how to write tests, basic HTML & CSS, basic JavaScript, good familiarity with JQuery", "group_id": 81, "id": 497799}, {"user_id": 1398, "stars": [{"date_created": 1301615995.4530439, "user_id": 26100}, {"date_created": 1301616616.5349679, "user_id": 13806}, {"date_created": 1301621095.125087, "user_id": 1356}, {"date_created": 1301639225.9154, "user_id": 5778}, {"date_created": 1301810448.2334361, "user_id": 594}, {"date_created": 1302144922.5422931, "user_id": 21289}, {"date_created": 1302280636.008991, "user_id": 12002}, {"date_created": 1302394729.5348411, "user_id": 4581}], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301615978.250319, "message": "Personally, I think its more fun to be a junior and I try to consider myself as such. Being a junior means that you have an excuse to ask EVERYONE for help and advice. Cause as soon as you consider yourself senior or competant then complacency starts up.", "group_id": 81, "id": 497805}, {"user_id": 26100, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301616048.5825889, "message": "Totally agree.", "group_id": 81, "id": 497810}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301616135.308646, "message": "Some understanding of deployment tools and strategies", "group_id": 81, "id": 497820}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301616237.04954, "message": "Should have general knowledge of writing unit tests", "group_id": 81, "id": 497834}, {"user_id": 1398, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301616240.5034921, "message": "According to @Orion I don't qualify even as a junior dev. I always have to look up the 3 number permission scheme for operating systems, don't know how to do daemons or sftp, and have never touched Photoshop. So much fun identifying what I don't know! :D", "group_id": 81, "id": 497835}, {"user_id": 1398, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301616250.7646811, "message": "+1 on what @unbracketed is saying", "group_id": 81, "id": 497837}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301616341.872611, "message": "Knowing where to find the correct information you need efficiently weighs in as much for me as the book knowledge about all those topics", "group_id": 81, "id": 497841}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301616465.5672989, "message": "I'd also throw in the ability to be a good communicator as a heavyweight", "group_id": 81, "id": 497849}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301616836.091579, "message": "I'd say there is a very small percentage of people for whom this doesn't apply, but actual experience is the common thread here. Knowing the ins/outs of all the technical topics + knowing how to get information + knowing how to communicate effectively all come from working hard and learning from mistakes.  There's really no substitute IMO.", "group_id": 81, "id": 497882}, {"user_id": 17897, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301666723.988997, "message": "@pydanny I think one of the things that makes a good senior is that he isn't afraid to ask for help on a matter and complacency can affect everyone even a junior. :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 501491}, {"user_id": 17897, "stars": [{"date_created": 1301674861.769953, "user_id": 2588}, {"date_created": 1301690651.2284441, "user_id": 22109}, {"date_created": 1301702087.463104, "user_id": 4375}, {"date_created": 1301722741.768302, "user_id": 205}, {"date_created": 1301782735.5075519, "user_id": 1}], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301666791.3023, "message": "asking for help is a good trait in any developer imho.", "group_id": 81, "id": 501513}, {"user_id": 18417, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1301685692.8571639, "message": "When I was still at an agency and doing hiring, I'd have them either show sample code or give them a simple problem to solve in code. The problems were designed to take less than an hour to do (trying to be respectful of their time). I'd also ask them what they did to stay current with the industry. I wasn't looking for a specific list of sites per se, just that they understood the need for constant learning. My favorite question for potential devs was to list some questions or critiques of any recent project we'd done. That one tells you a lot about them.", "group_id": 81, "id": 504810}, {"user_id": 2503, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1302096222.8262229, "message": "ff", "group_id": 81, "id": 559029}, {"user_id": 1147, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1302188462.2064359, "message": "Minimum skill-set for my jr Django devs is basic Python, very smart and motivated. Everything else is negotiable (not a must have).", "group_id": 81, "id": 576101}, {"user_id": 1147, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1302188905.8418131, "message": "For a \"non-junior\" hire.. There's many levels and niches here and it depends on the application. Sometimes high performance knowledge, sometimes business field specific knowledge is important, sometimes it's data management. Generally, excellent SQL, JS, jQuery, OO and communication.", "group_id": 81, "id": 576193}, {"user_id": 21387, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1302193963.9707029, "message": "Good skills on database normalization is also a required item for me. It proves that the developer knows how to handle data.", "group_id": 81, "id": 577075}, {"user_id": 21387, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1302194050.020684, "message": "@edmenendez why front-end stuff? Maybe JS could be a good extra, but I would never require jQuery.", "group_id": 81, "id": 577093}, {"user_id": 1147, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1302274794.2531159, "message": "@eMyller depends on the application. But if the application is a light Ajaxy app like convore or MyEmailDraft.com. JS skills really help.. And a senior hire should know it already if that's the type of application being created.", "group_id": 81, "id": 591140}, {"user_id": 15284, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1302276392.8555801, "message": "I know python/django for 3 years, html/css/javascript/ajax, jquery, pip, virtualenv, git/svn/hg, Postgres, Mysql and stuff like that.... WTF am I?", "group_id": 81, "id": 591624}, {"user_id": 1822, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1302280947.8106699, "message": "@airstrike yup, OT - see: https://convore.com/django-community/how-is-the-consulting-market-for-django/", "group_id": 81, "id": 592517}, {"user_id": 12002, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1302280726.0867479, "message": "kinda going OT, but what how much does a junior developer usually get paid in the US? (ballpark estimate)", "group_id": 81, "id": 592470}, {"user_id": 1398, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1302304095.8564141, "message": "As someone who has hired developers, I can tell you that its kind of interesting when junior devs read that and decide that they deserve senior rates. :P", "group_id": 81, "id": 597517}, {"user_id": 14356, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1302357313.589668, "message": "As a python web dev, a good start would be 1.Python (reading, writing and debugging) 2.HTML/HTTP /CSS/Javascript (exact levels based on requirement) 2. SQL (unless using NoSQL DB - in which case add that) 3. Schema Design (understand normalization) 4. DBA skills (at least a good understanding - to understand unexpected consequences) 5. Algorithms (good grounding in understanding and creating them) 6. Logic (firm understanding and able to derive ouput based on input) 7. Googling skills (this can sometimes be the most important!). That's most of it. I develop mostly using web2py so am not sure of what one needs to know specifically about django. But the above will help you solve just about any problem using Python.", "group_id": 81, "id": 602323}, {"user_id": 14356, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1302357627.093874, "message": "I am an independent consultant and have struggled to keep up with new developments. While a good idea, it is mostly a game of catch up with no immediate benefits. I find each job requires specific knowledge and googling skills (or searching skills) and ability to understand code helps a lot. Oh! I missed the big one. 8. Good Communication (reading/writing AND speaking). My $0.02. I should have added *testing* in #1 Python skills.", "group_id": 81, "id": 602342}, {"user_id": 28506, "stars": [], "topic_id": 16550, "date_created": 1302454114.2777159, "message": "I think you should be able to write a simple but good blog engine in one hour :-)", "group_id": 81, "id": 610808}]