convore.json/groups/hacker-news/sproutcore-vs-node-js-vs-cappuccino/messages.json

[{"user_id": 23098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305529943.9638131, "message": "Does anyone have any experience with any of these 3? Thoughts? Pro's, cons? We're recently funded, and building our platform in Sproutcore, but the lack of documentation blows. Also, it seems to be hard to find developers for any of these. I'd kill to find a Sproutcore dev, or someone competent willing to learn it.", "group_id": 95, "id": 1068304}, {"user_id": 8421, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305530701.390749, "message": "For rich UIs in JavaScript I would rather look at something like ExtJS 4 from Sencha, at least it's got history, traction, and a company behind it.", "group_id": 95, "id": 1068343}, {"user_id": 31125, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305531202.383394, "message": "Sproutcore has MobileMe (the email part)", "group_id": 95, "id": 1068376}, {"user_id": 23098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305531403.473665, "message": "Flow is getflow.com its made in Node.js. We've already gone down the Sproutcore path, I was just curious what the community has to say about it. We ended up having to hire a company called Strobe to offer support @5k/yr for Sproutcore.", "group_id": 95, "id": 1068390}, {"user_id": 23098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305531461.7452991, "message": "@martin_sunset yea, we're using mongo for much of our backend, but as I said - its with Sproutcore, not Node. Sproutcore has some pretty cool features though.", "group_id": 95, "id": 1068394}, {"user_id": 31125, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305530654.5201271, "message": "Capuccino requires you to learn a new language Objective J. But its close to Sproutcore", "group_id": 95, "id": 1068338}, {"user_id": 31125, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305530689.6486709, "message": "Node.js is not a framework but more of a language with async IO and some great libraries.", "group_id": 95, "id": 1068341}, {"user_id": 26065, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305531140.917238, "message": "from what I gathered from your website I think node.js is a great backend for the performance sensitive parts of your solution (analytics, data collection,...). I would pair that with mongodb and you should be fine at that end.", "group_id": 95, "id": 1068372}, {"user_id": 26065, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305532170.636482, "message": "Agree that we will see more apps on frameworks, especially in mobile. There will be a huge developer shortage though, which hinders adoption (much worse than it is now). I have been in a situation with a previous company I owned (and the only one that did not work out) where we were locked into a technology where it was impossible to find developers for. That's why I am very cautious these days in regards to full features frameworks.", "group_id": 95, "id": 1068447}, {"user_id": 8421, "stars": [{"date_created": 1305573736.5715721, "user_id": 14954}], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305530564.2292531, "message": "If the question is \"which item doesn't belong on that list\", then the answer is NodeJS.", "group_id": 95, "id": 1068333}, {"user_id": 31125, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305530609.27424, "message": "My experience is that i can even make the first tutorial work with Sproutcore... Lack of documentation and small community.", "group_id": 95, "id": 1068337}, {"user_id": 23098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305531042.597127, "message": "We spent a week getting up to speed on sproutcore, and the new update, 1.5 made it a lot easier. The reason I mention Node is actually because of flow. Flow looks and feels like mobile me (sproutcore), but the technological approach is much different. Jquery is totally different, and by itself wouldn't quite give the same effect we're looking for. As for ExtJs, i've seen it, but haven't seen anything amazing built in it, any ideas?", "group_id": 95, "id": 1068363}, {"user_id": 31125, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305530831.592442, "message": "There is also , Jquery, Jquery UI and Jquery mobile but then you will still be working with html and js the old way. (you dont do html with capuccino and sproutcore)", "group_id": 95, "id": 1068347}, {"user_id": 8421, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305531159.8782971, "message": "Just for reference, what is an amazing thing built in Sproutcore? I guess Capuccino has 280slides as a poster child.", "group_id": 95, "id": 1068373}, {"user_id": 23098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305531877.4653511, "message": "Lol. Man - not much sproutcore love. I do, however, think something like one of these frameworks is where things are headed, and we will start to see more apps running on frameworks like these.", "group_id": 95, "id": 1068428}, {"user_id": 26065, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305531195.734751, "message": "Regarding front ends, not sure about that. I used to work a lot with huge frameworks but you alread mentioned some of the downsides: Long learning curve, hard to find developers, and if you made the wrong choice you are pretty much SOL.", "group_id": 95, "id": 1068375}, {"user_id": 31125, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305531244.5953979, "message": "what is Flow?", "group_id": 95, "id": 1068380}, {"user_id": 26065, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305531530.68764, "message": "@william \"pretty cool features\" thats how they suck you in :P Seriously though, if it works for you go for it. The customers don't care how you do it, they just care that you do it", "group_id": 95, "id": 1068400}, {"user_id": 26065, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305532186.419409, "message": "full featured - damned spelling..", "group_id": 95, "id": 1068449}, {"user_id": 31125, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305533393.760947, "message": "This could be interesting http://documentcloud.github.com/backbone/#", "group_id": 95, "id": 1068524}, {"user_id": 23098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305533440.117197, "message": "Right. I've seen that. Pretty cool as well!", "group_id": 95, "id": 1068535}, {"user_id": 31125, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305533641.35799, "message": "Ok i abandon Capuccino as you have to alloc init your objects like in ObjC...", "group_id": 95, "id": 1068576}, {"user_id": 26065, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305533734.2293501, "message": "@sucrenoir LOL and +1 for backbone", "group_id": 95, "id": 1068590}, {"user_id": 31125, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305535030.814846, "message": "actually Flow has been done with backbone http://documentcloud.github.com/backbone/#examples-flow", "group_id": 95, "id": 1068729}, {"user_id": 15141, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305543934.5929599, "message": "I tried both cappuccino and Sproutcore. In the end, I decided to work with my own MVC framework with jquery. Both cappuccino and sproutcore aren't mature enough for serious production product except if you want to adapt their source code to your needs.", "group_id": 95, "id": 1069561}, {"user_id": 29396, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305548305.208498, "message": "there is also Sammy.Js, a javascript fwk that could be a good choice: http://sammyjs.org/", "group_id": 95, "id": 1069954}, {"user_id": 31125, "stars": [{"date_created": 1305568984.6143839, "user_id": 960}], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305554365.8628941, "message": "@yogsototh Its used by Mobile Me (Apple, millions of users) so i dont think its a problem of maturity but more a problem of community and documentation", "group_id": 95, "id": 1071023}, {"user_id": 960, "stars": [{"date_created": 1305572011.6508851, "user_id": 3444}], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305568969.502202, "message": "Umm... to say Cappuccino and SproutCore \"aren't mature enough for serious production\" is like saying that you have questions about how viable PHP is or that Rails can't scale because it's built-in dev server sucks.", "group_id": 95, "id": 1073131}, {"user_id": 15141, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305578594.756974, "message": "The point is, I needed to make a web application that connect to my own JSON API.", "group_id": 95, "id": 1074629}, {"user_id": 15141, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305578696.1640849, "message": "I started to write a bit of Cappuccino application but it take a long time to load and some widget aren't mobile compatible.", "group_id": 95, "id": 1074655}, {"user_id": 15141, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305578640.9285071, "message": "5 month ago, I tried the SproutCore tutorial, and it was broken :-(, now I believe it is fixed", "group_id": 95, "id": 1074642}, {"user_id": 15141, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305578763.9619441, "message": "Then, yes, if you know your web app will use no more than what you saw in real Cappuccino (or Sproutcore) app. These are certainly the best tools around.", "group_id": 95, "id": 1074662}, {"user_id": 15141, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305578530.829093, "message": "Guys, let me explain. All is in the end of my sentence. ...production product except if you want to adapt their source code to your needs.", "group_id": 95, "id": 1074608}, {"user_id": 15141, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305578552.6237991, "message": "I love Cappuccino, and I follow the evolution of SproutCore", "group_id": 95, "id": 1074613}, {"user_id": 15141, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305579044.6658771, "message": "I believe Cappuccino & SproutCore took the right way to make modern web app. I just have the feeling these tools aren't finished enough. The worst part is the doc. But each month they become closer and closer to be _the_ tool to make client web app.", "group_id": 95, "id": 1074704}, {"user_id": 15141, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305578814.655267, "message": "But for most use, you'll need to create new widgets yourself, or adapt their source code to handle some not so small details.", "group_id": 95, "id": 1074672}, {"user_id": 23098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305590842.235779, "message": "Interesting debate. If anyone has a good understanding of Sproutcore, and wants a job, let me know.", "group_id": 95, "id": 1076372}, {"user_id": 960, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305590980.3309009, "message": "I think too many people are used to jQuery as a representation of what JavaScript is or ought to be.  It's a library.  A heavy one for some things, but a library nonetheless.", "group_id": 95, "id": 1076398}, {"user_id": 960, "stars": [{"date_created": 1305610645.5611269, "user_id": 26065}], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305590952.6241381, "message": "@yogsototh Fair enough...  They are frameworks though.  You code *in* a framework, you *use* a library.", "group_id": 95, "id": 1076390}, {"user_id": 960, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35462, "date_created": 1305591050.3101659, "message": "I think the thing that threw me, @yogsototh was the \"adapt it to fit your needs\" which implied to me, and based on your later comments, wrongly, that you had to hack away at the core of those to make them work for anything outside of their examples.", "group_id": 95, "id": 1076409}]