convore.json/groups/kynetx/is-it-possible-to-install-a-local-krl-environment/messages.json

[{"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303363545.873553, "message": "It is usually a good practice to develop on a local server and deploy once the app is working on the local environment. This is also required when several people work on the same app as the appbuilder is not really made for collaborative work, at least not at the same time. Can the KRL environment be installed locally so we could develop apps offline ?", "group_id": 236, "id": 766369}, {"user_id": 763, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303391691.0170829, "message": "You will shortly, but it's not going to help you the way you think it will. With wan app big enough to need multiple developers, you should consider breaking the app into multiple rulesets and modules. That will make both maintenance and multi developer work flow easier.", "group_id": 236, "id": 769884}, {"user_id": 763, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303401188.5867419, "message": "That's not really what I'm proposing.", "group_id": 236, "id": 771671}, {"user_id": 763, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303401222.964782, "message": "multiple rulesets evaluating as part of the same request incurs no more cost then a single ruleset.", "group_id": 236, "id": 771677}, {"user_id": 763, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303401691.331717, "message": "What I do get and appreciate from your comments is that you need better ways of collaborating with other developers on the same ruleset.", "group_id": 236, "id": 771794}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303401162.6636009, "message": "What I understand Sam is that you propose that every developer maintains his ruleset. In theory this should ease the workflow. In practice though I think it's not sustainable because a developer wants to change the code wherever he wants, whenever he wants. That's what he can do when the team is working with a repository. Besides that , each ruleset execution has a cost ( http://kynetx-images.s3.amazonaws.com/KynetxPricingVARS%20March%202010.pdf ). While I understand that an app that uses more server ressources should naturally cost more, just making an app more readable by splitting it in rulesets shouldn't or we will end up developping tools that take several rulesets and stick everything in one. Yes there are modules ( =reusable functions) but they don't achieve what a ruleset  or a rule can do. I'd rather suggest ( but I am sure that is already on your long todo list ) some common things found in other languages like file inclusions ( of KRL code) , constants ( not vars) or the possibility to use the \"use ressource\" directive inside rules by adding a meta block in rules so the resource only gets loaded when needed. As kynetx app will do more and consequently  get more complex these things will be needed on the long term I believe.", "group_id": 236, "id": 771663}, {"user_id": 763, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303401429.469821, "message": "KRL and rule based context engines don't have the same properties as other languages and platforms.", "group_id": 236, "id": 771721}, {"user_id": 763, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303402188.4825611, "message": "and: better ways of testing an app in the kbx.", "group_id": 236, "id": 772022}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303401682.6518581, "message": "There are certainly a lot of specifities that KRL, KNS and evented platform that I am really not aware off and your comments help me to reduce that gap.", "group_id": 236, "id": 771789}, {"user_id": 763, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303402167.928236, "message": "two things I'm picking up on: use resource as an action would help only load external resources when necessary", "group_id": 236, "id": 772013}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303402262.483608, "message": "what I mean is that if for now we can't include js files in rules then we have to paste it inside the rule", "group_id": 236, "id": 772063}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303402673.6491671, "message": "but maybe an overkill", "group_id": 236, "id": 772237}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303402127.651123, "message": "I also think but I am not completly sure, that there could be caching problems", "group_id": 236, "id": 772000}, {"user_id": 763, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303401290.130929, "message": "We do appreciate your suggestions, but be careful to jump to conclusions when you assume similarities between KRL, KNS, and an evented platform.", "group_id": 236, "id": 771691}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303401847.533215, "message": "I use a lot of jquery plugins.", "group_id": 236, "id": 771883}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303401999.509357, "message": "what I noticed is that the \"use resource\" directive includes everything", "group_id": 236, "id": 771925}, {"user_id": 763, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303401519.6623671, "message": "From a splitting code into multiple rulesets perspective: Putting functionality groups in rulesets not only helps reuse, but allows for testing of chuncks of functionality independant of the larger app. I'm not proposing that devs maintain their own copy of a single ruleset.", "group_id": 236, "id": 771744}, {"user_id": 763, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303401810.499635, "message": "Is there a particular situation that you've run into recently that motivated the suggestion?", "group_id": 236, "id": 771862}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303402065.04739, "message": "so the amout of js resources can be very heavy , even though all is not used in a particular context", "group_id": 236, "id": 771965}, {"user_id": 763, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303401733.7318721, "message": "Please don't take my comments the wrong way: I (and we) love your feedback and comments.", "group_id": 236, "id": 771812}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303401809.3223009, "message": ":-) I won't!", "group_id": 236, "id": 771860}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303402307.0526991, "message": "if the generated js code gets  changed a little then the browser will load everything again, including all my jquery plugins that don't change", "group_id": 236, "id": 772085}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303401936.180418, "message": "and specific code I include on the fly to make the ruleset more readable but it's been really difficult to include them because of the sandbox environment", "group_id": 236, "id": 771905}, {"user_id": 763, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303402085.351305, "message": "I do like the idea of a use resource action, as opposed to something global.", "group_id": 236, "id": 771974}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303402111.872257, "message": "I hope I am more or less clear.", "group_id": 236, "id": 771991}, {"user_id": 763, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303402197.8034871, "message": "where have you seen caching problems.", "group_id": 236, "id": 772027}, {"user_id": 763, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303401786.925303, "message": "I'm trying to help the gap in understanding, and I appreciate your desire to better understand the fundamentals of the platform.", "group_id": 236, "id": 771845}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303401833.6023569, "message": "absolutely", "group_id": 236, "id": 771879}, {"user_id": 763, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303402253.3476751, "message": "?", "group_id": 236, "id": 772056}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303402439.731087, "message": "now about constants", "group_id": 236, "id": 772145}, {"user_id": 763, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303402614.671474, "message": "no, but with rule based use resource would solve that.", "group_id": 236, "id": 772221}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303402645.7284069, "message": "yes it would help", "group_id": 236, "id": 772228}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303402758.0145841, "message": "when I want to test online I need to change the pathes to resources", "group_id": 236, "id": 772263}, {"user_id": 763, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303403928.312521, "message": "We have talked about that. Particularly the changelog feature. Displaying that to the user would be pretty cool.", "group_id": 236, "id": 772656}, {"user_id": 763, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303402527.3913729, "message": "variables in KRL are immutable, so if you declare a variable in the global, it works like a constant.", "group_id": 236, "id": 772183}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303403462.8425119, "message": "patch and extension is available here :", "group_id": 236, "id": 772465}, {"user_id": 763, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303404085.282882, "message": "changelog/deploy history just hit our storyboard.", "group_id": 236, "id": 772711}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303402531.6507659, "message": "it would allow us to have more flexibility on pathes to resources for example", "group_id": 236, "id": 772186}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303402686.3875921, "message": "the precise use case for me is the following", "group_id": 236, "id": 772242}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303402732.0714869, "message": "I am used to develop on local environments ( also because where I live the bandwith is not of light speed)", "group_id": 236, "id": 772258}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303402958.020045, "message": "Maybe I should rather say \"#define preprocessor directive\" like in C instead of constant", "group_id": 236, "id": 772303}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303402319.6638329, "message": "i guess it's a waste of bandwith and responsivness", "group_id": 236, "id": 772086}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303402377.7648001, "message": "so basically we don't take advantage of the cache mechanism a browser offers", "group_id": 236, "id": 772114}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303402884.6743529, "message": "but \"use resource\" is static so I would need to modify all the paths; with constants that would be replaced in these paths I could easily switch the paths by just changing one constant", "group_id": 236, "id": 772291}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303403621.1972239, "message": "or maybe alert the user : \"update available\" with changelog and so on", "group_id": 236, "id": 772542}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303402485.2619641, "message": "(basic mechanism that would replace the constant with it's value wherever in the ruleset)", "group_id": 236, "id": 772165}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303402552.720041, "message": "yes but can I use a KRL var in the meta block ?", "group_id": 236, "id": 772197}, {"user_id": 763, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303402397.5750999, "message": "right.", "group_id": 236, "id": 772126}, {"user_id": 763, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303402402.9501939, "message": "it would improve caching.", "group_id": 236, "id": 772131}, {"user_id": 763, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303403365.9458129, "message": "you would have to remember to change your resource paths back before deploy, but it would be a step closer.", "group_id": 236, "id": 772416}, {"user_id": 763, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303403534.0531859, "message": "general support is a little more complicated, as we need to only enable dev for certain apps.", "group_id": 236, "id": 772501}, {"user_id": 763, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303403728.1705141, "message": "updates are deployed to users instantly, no update required.... or am I missunderstanding what you mean?", "group_id": 236, "id": 772576}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303403489.8226221, "message": "http://blog.lolo.asia/technology/kynetx/2011/04/16/debugging-with-kbx-extension-how-to-avoid-having-to-deploy-at-every-code-modification/", "group_id": 236, "id": 772479}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303403492.904206, "message": "all the apps", "group_id": 236, "id": 772482}, {"user_id": 763, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303403512.129365, "message": "I did see your blog post, now that you mention it.", "group_id": 236, "id": 772489}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303403591.355917, "message": "yes that will be even better", "group_id": 236, "id": 772527}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303403868.9577279, "message": "it's a good way to promote the app too instead of secretly updating it", "group_id": 236, "id": 772639}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303403943.1707809, "message": "some user might prefer a silent update", "group_id": 236, "id": 772666}, {"user_id": 763, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303403378.740186, "message": "running dev versions in the kbx is very high on our list.", "group_id": 236, "id": 772425}, {"user_id": 763, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303403568.401823, "message": "we'll enable switching to the dev version on your subscriptions page.", "group_id": 236, "id": 772517}, {"user_id": 763, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303403462.888968, "message": "of all your apps, or just specific ones?", "group_id": 236, "id": 772466}, {"user_id": 763, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303403637.36168, "message": "what do you mean?", "group_id": 236, "id": 772547}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303403759.3552661, "message": "maybe a user wants to have the choice and know about the new features of the dev version (or the new deployed version)", "group_id": 236, "id": 772592}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303403197.4205141, "message": "that said \"rule based use resource\" would be very very nice, definitely", "group_id": 236, "id": 772371}, {"user_id": 763, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303403309.2814651, "message": "if you had the ability to run the dev version of your app in the kbx, that would help also.", "group_id": 236, "id": 772394}, {"user_id": 763, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303403965.611124, "message": "yes. versioning is a different case for modules, as they are developer centric.", "group_id": 236, "id": 772673}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303403424.038748, "message": "actually I patched the KBX Chrome and FF extension so it uses the latest dev versions", "group_id": 236, "id": 772441}, {"user_id": 763, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303403623.034245, "message": "definately on our list.", "group_id": 236, "id": 772543}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303403846.6629839, "message": "what I mean is that it is allways nice to know that an app got a new release", "group_id": 236, "id": 772630}, {"user_id": 30462, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303403925.7300301, "message": "versioning is also important for modules.", "group_id": 236, "id": 772655}, {"user_id": 763, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303403806.19016, "message": "we don't plan on regular users ever being able to switch to the dev version. that will only be available to the developer of the app.", "group_id": 236, "id": 772614}, {"user_id": 763, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303403839.8127861, "message": "we don't want the user to have to worry about versions of the apps they run.", "group_id": 236, "id": 772627}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303403932.2647941, "message": "I am just saying that it \"might\" be interesting for the user to be notified if he wishes", "group_id": 236, "id": 772658}, {"user_id": 763, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303404001.6867681, "message": "we will make the changelog available, but not too sure about requiring users to update to the new version of the app.", "group_id": 236, "id": 772685}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303405648.052145, "message": "let me check right now again.", "group_id": 236, "id": 773030}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303405995.198565, "message": "so nothing to worry about", "group_id": 236, "id": 773056}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303405388.6129291, "message": "I feel that a local environment would also be a good remedy against amazon outages for all the fanatic kynetx developers out there ;)", "group_id": 236, "id": 772976}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303405842.3834269, "message": "got a misleading \"We're sorry, but something went wrong.\" message that disapeared once i refreshed the page", "group_id": 236, "id": 773047}, {"user_id": 763, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303405442.993983, "message": "Is there something besides the bookmarklets/endpoint factory that isn't working for you?", "group_id": 236, "id": 772985}, {"user_id": 30494, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303405938.7584829, "message": "when i opened an app in the appbuilder", "group_id": 236, "id": 773051}, {"user_id": 763, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20660, "date_created": 1303406050.8896201, "message": "hmm.... you got an oauth redirection error. strange", "group_id": 236, "id": 773064}]