convore.json/groups/python/launchpad/messages.json

[{"user_id": 653, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298346531.1854081, "user_id": 1}, {"date_created": 1298353895.053261, "user_id": 4156}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298346496.3580379, "message": "What's the most important thing on that page? What should you click first?", "group_id": 292, "id": 176940}, {"user_id": 12404, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298345886.835016, "user_id": 1}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298345880.2783549, "message": "i'm wearing the launchpad t-shirt I got at pycon 2009 :) other than that, i'm happy with bitbucket/github", "group_id": 292, "id": 176890}, {"user_id": 1, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298345592.3321409, "message": "What are the arguments for people liking Launchpad?", "group_id": 292, "id": 176863}, {"user_id": 5639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298346102.4425211, "message": "Launchpad seems to have two faces: one you see when you just want the code, and another that you see when you're working on a LP-hosted project.", "group_id": 292, "id": 176911}, {"user_id": 653, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298346531.7147729, "user_id": 1}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298346517.0603161, "message": "Everything has the same weight visually, so even when you know what you want, you can't find it.", "group_id": 292, "id": 176941}, {"user_id": 1, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298345578.907783, "message": "Forking from the async python topic", "group_id": 292, "id": 176861}, {"user_id": 1, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298354675.2183011, "user_id": 8391}, {"date_created": 1298363912.1068571, "user_id": 915}, {"date_created": 1298382378.4299791, "user_id": 592}, {"date_created": 1298389431.0513201, "user_id": 213}, {"date_created": 1298401117.057725, "user_id": 927}, {"date_created": 1298473518.2580509, "user_id": 2024}, {"date_created": 1298600893.354845, "user_id": 8}, {"date_created": 1298786815.220093, "user_id": 5575}, {"date_created": 1300048700.7799189, "user_id": 275}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298345597.4797649, "message": "I actually despise it.", "group_id": 292, "id": 176865}, {"user_id": 1, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298345618.530163, "message": "Which seems like it should be the #1 biggest most important priority of all time for a code hosting service.", "group_id": 292, "id": 176873}, {"user_id": 1, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298345602.590956, "message": "I can never figure out how to get to the code!", "group_id": 292, "id": 176867}, {"user_id": 3354, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298345652.921411, "message": "I just don;t see the point", "group_id": 292, "id": 176875}, {"user_id": 14578, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298494405.300386, "user_id": 3368}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298346107.629266, "message": "a big nice thing about launchpad is that it has an issue tracker that's actually nice", "group_id": 292, "id": 176912}, {"user_id": 5639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298346124.041322, "message": "I HATE the 'gimme the code' interface, but after about an hour working on an LP-hosted project, I LOVED it for that.", "group_id": 292, "id": 176914}, {"user_id": 14578, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298346264.342813, "user_id": 1}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298346135.2358389, "message": "it definitely doesn't have the \"code in front\" page design of github", "group_id": 292, "id": 176915}, {"user_id": 14578, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298346149.8036349, "message": "but they do have more pages with 'view branch content' links front and center", "group_id": 292, "id": 176916}, {"user_id": 14578, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298346156.8715119, "message": "(than they used to)", "group_id": 292, "id": 176918}, {"user_id": 653, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298346467.628448, "message": "It was horrible before the redesign and is worse now. Go to this page, I'll wait: https://launchpad.net/pyax", "group_id": 292, "id": 176938}, {"user_id": 653, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298346583.9404371, "message": "Very similar sorts of issues. It also does nothing to promote Bazaar as a tool, which may be a choice but seems like a poor choice.", "group_id": 292, "id": 176945}, {"user_id": 1736, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298346546.7031889, "message": "Launchpad reminds me of SF.net back in the day.", "group_id": 292, "id": 176944}, {"user_id": 6671, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298370354.516701, "user_id": 13912}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298347668.764339, "message": "Yeah, the UI is an ongoing disaster", "group_id": 292, "id": 176997}, {"user_id": 6671, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298347675.282701, "message": "but launchpad does something different than github and bitbucket", "group_id": 292, "id": 176999}, {"user_id": 6671, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298347856.819139, "message": "which is odd, since e.g. macvim is hosted at the ever-memorable URL https://github.com/b4winckler/macvim", "group_id": 292, "id": 177012}, {"user_id": 6671, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298347869.2015569, "message": "and some projects create fake users (like https://bitbucket.org/adium/adium)", "group_id": 292, "id": 177014}, {"user_id": 6671, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298347736.9390979, "message": "github and bitbucket are both oriented around this model where the user is the primary thing, and users have code", "group_id": 292, "id": 177003}, {"user_id": 6671, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298348028.614181, "message": "but Launchpad will let you track a bug like this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/twisted/+bug/361865", "group_id": 292, "id": 177028}, {"user_id": 6671, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298360742.515239, "user_id": 214}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298348133.5222039, "message": "and good luck figuring out what that all means, but once you've spent all the time deciphering it, it's very useful: you get bug reports which are correlated across all the projects which it causes issues in, references to your own bugtracker, references to external bugtracker, information on release status in ubuntu (or any other distros which use launchpad to track their releases)", "group_id": 292, "id": 177032}, {"user_id": 653, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298360720.047817, "user_id": 214}, {"date_created": 1298449535.202632, "user_id": 6671}, {"date_created": 1298494539.8326361, "user_id": 3368}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298353013.3132169, "message": "It seems like a thread is forming here that large, widely distributed (by folks committing code) fare better with Launchpad's tools than they would on Github or Bitbucket. It makes sense given Launchpad's pedigree as the place to work on Ubuntu. I'd agree that the Fork Me model on Github leads to lots of confusion about the canonical version of a project.", "group_id": 292, "id": 177287}, {"user_id": 5778, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298354631.0748651, "message": "the UI is not very intuitive at all when you're looking for the source code, imo", "group_id": 292, "id": 177358}, {"user_id": 5778, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298354698.681545, "message": "but it's been a few years now", "group_id": 292, "id": 177366}, {"user_id": 3617, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298353082.1438529, "message": "@aezellisdead True, I'm not saying it's 'good'. I just think from a \"I want to try this random app\" perspective it's not as horrid as it is for devs.", "group_id": 292, "id": 177292}, {"user_id": 653, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298353033.483248, "message": "@BiosElement Only if you want to download the code. And most of the time, I don't.", "group_id": 292, "id": 177288}, {"user_id": 5778, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298354614.995997, "user_id": 8391}, {"date_created": 1298355862.984448, "user_id": 1736}, {"date_created": 1298357934.6150041, "user_id": 1}, {"date_created": 1298364900.5389521, "user_id": 915}, {"date_created": 1298394130.8067141, "user_id": 222}, {"date_created": 1298402053.1398621, "user_id": 4156}, {"date_created": 1298420149.219852, "user_id": 205}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298354609.535835, "message": "every time I hit a launchpad project, I'm like, \"forget that, I'll use something else\"", "group_id": 292, "id": 177356}, {"user_id": 242, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298354740.6612101, "message": "It's always been interesting to me that github's tagline is social coding.", "group_id": 292, "id": 177369}, {"user_id": 8391, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298354828.9346769, "message": "@dreid: what do you mean?", "group_id": 292, "id": 177373}, {"user_id": 3617, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298352999.7272661, "message": "@aezellisdead I dnno, I'd click the 'huge' big green button on the right. Seems kinda simple to me...", "group_id": 292, "id": 177284}, {"user_id": 5778, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298354594.386085, "message": "I agree with @ericflo", "group_id": 292, "id": 177354}, {"user_id": 8391, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298354457.9653289, "message": "Redmine's where it's at.", "group_id": 292, "id": 177348}, {"user_id": 8391, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298354740.351867, "message": "I use both GitHub and redmine very heavily.", "group_id": 292, "id": 177368}, {"user_id": 8391, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298360708.9293959, "user_id": 214}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298354519.2480919, "message": "Launchpad is extremely useful for ubuntu packagers because of the PPA support. That's really the only benefit/feature that I know of.", "group_id": 292, "id": 177350}, {"user_id": 8391, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298354617.399477, "message": "+10", "group_id": 292, "id": 177357}, {"user_id": 8391, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298354660.82059, "message": "the same should be said about Trac.", "group_id": 292, "id": 177360}, {"user_id": 5778, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298354681.0129001, "message": "yes, Trac pains me too.", "group_id": 292, "id": 177362}, {"user_id": 5778, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298354726.461329, "user_id": 8391}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298354694.3745799, "message": "last time I used Redmine I was pretty impressed", "group_id": 292, "id": 177364}, {"user_id": 8391, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298354764.0275731, "message": "Redmine + Gitosis w/ some customizations. It's by far the best system available without paying for GitHub:FI", "group_id": 292, "id": 177370}, {"user_id": 242, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298394147.3701501, "user_id": 222}, {"date_created": 1298449566.120481, "user_id": 6671}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298354792.2958479, "message": "It's almost social in spite of itself.  Which is user centric and encourages users to take someones ball and go home.", "group_id": 292, "id": 177371}, {"user_id": 242, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298354959.5975471, "message": "Perhaps it actually means it is social in the sense that it allows for ad hoc collaboration whereas launchpad functions best for semi-rigidly organized teams.", "group_id": 292, "id": 177377}, {"user_id": 8391, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298355018.9879711, "message": "Typically, yes, but GitHub has organizations now.", "group_id": 292, "id": 177379}, {"user_id": 8391, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298355052.1452849, "message": "That brings a lot of organization and structure into the picture.", "group_id": 292, "id": 177380}, {"user_id": 242, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298355059.597707, "message": "The interesting thing is that you can take a low barrier to entry system that encourages ad hoc collaboration and build more structure on top of that.  But it'll always be hard for launchpad to go the other way because it started as a highly structured system.", "group_id": 292, "id": 177381}, {"user_id": 8391, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298355062.5228081, "message": "more federated-style access", "group_id": 292, "id": 177382}, {"user_id": 8391, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298355087.3266881, "message": "Exactly! SourceForge had the same problem.", "group_id": 292, "id": 177384}, {"user_id": 11592, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298449583.8005559, "user_id": 6671}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298365438.7481771, "message": "Launchpad is a project hosting. Code stuff is a mere coincedence (=", "group_id": 292, "id": 177928}, {"user_id": 915, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298364971.245738, "message": "hah, that's funny to see such a tread because of that: http://twitter.com/asolovyov/status/39628855882948608", "group_id": 292, "id": 177925}, {"user_id": 9650, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298404967.4116011, "user_id": 14578}, {"date_created": 1298449589.6049249, "user_id": 6671}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298369190.3662069, "message": "The issue tracker on LP is the best one I know.  Plus I like Bazaar.  Therefore I use LP.  Besides, I find the pages not particularly messy.  LP offers a lot of things which makes the pages more complicated than say GitHub, that's it in my opinion.", "group_id": 292, "id": 178226}, {"user_id": 13912, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298371090.9701519, "message": "It's a shame it's the only popular project hosting solution with bazaar support. Bazaar is a really nice VCS. There are just too many barriers to entry, starting from the UI and concepts you have to understand. And then the public keys. I use 7 or more different computers/os instances to do my work, having to maintain public keys on each just to push my code around is just annoying. If they took a little time to figure out the public facing UI it would probably be more popular with people. IMO github is so popular because of the UI bling and the social aspect, despite git being so damn confusing and the darned public keys.", "group_id": 292, "id": 178351}, {"user_id": 1152, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298378311.614723, "user_id": 5582}, {"date_created": 1298380706.3485351, "user_id": 8391}, {"date_created": 1298394180.5409069, "user_id": 222}, {"date_created": 1298914830.358156, "user_id": 1243}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298375782.8589351, "message": "Just chiming in to say: I too avoid a project if it's hosted on sourceforge, or launchpad - both due to user interface and WTF factors. Google code, bitbucket, and github (as much as I dislike git) are \"good enough for me\".", "group_id": 292, "id": 178679}, {"user_id": 13893, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298381459.7700191, "message": "@0chris bzr was always the choice for handling legacy vcs.", "group_id": 292, "id": 178940}, {"user_id": 13893, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298381614.1526999, "message": "@0chris Now if you ask a hg user, he will say we don't need git, and vice versa. Choosing a VCS became a matter of taste :)", "group_id": 292, "id": 178976}, {"user_id": 5701, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298447682.665024, "user_id": 6587}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298380519.3431849, "message": "launchpad ui is incredibly trivial, \"bzr branch lp:projectname\".  Sure it's got plenty of problems, but getting the code isn't really one of them.", "group_id": 292, "id": 178908}, {"user_id": 5582, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298381145.2106619, "message": "On a somewhat related note: is there a real need for bazaar, when we already have Mercurial and git? Does it do something much better than these two?", "group_id": 292, "id": 178930}, {"user_id": 13893, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298381393.7372489, "message": "@0chris It can work with different kind of repos", "group_id": 292, "id": 178936}, {"user_id": 4893, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298382295.9200101, "message": "@0chris I haven't used bzr for a really long time but for one thing I really like that they actually have a documented API (bzrlib). After browsing a bit through the documentation I also kind of like the idea of stacked branches (stacked repositories): http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/bzr.2.2/en/user-guide/stacked.html", "group_id": 292, "id": 179020}, {"user_id": 5639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298381526.4602759, "message": "@0chris the answer to that question, applied to almost anything, is always yes. Always.", "group_id": 292, "id": 178951}, {"user_id": 5582, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298381733.2625351, "message": "@jonesy I can't quite agree. But I was asking for real arguments. What does bzr do better?", "group_id": 292, "id": 178986}, {"user_id": 5701, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298449626.967133, "user_id": 6671}, {"date_created": 1299423448.1613221, "user_id": 18539}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298382491.7611771, "message": "bzr shared repositories are a better approach to revision storage than that taken by either git or hg", "group_id": 292, "id": 179033}, {"user_id": 4156, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298402164.0847509, "message": "Sadly for bzr, tools like VCSen thrive largely due to the size of the community using them, and bzr has clearly lost that battle to Git and Hg. I haven't used bzr so can't say if it's really any better technically, but I don't care because nobody I know or respect seems to use it.", "group_id": 292, "id": 181586}, {"user_id": 5701, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298449672.0325689, "user_id": 6671}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298402247.5185289, "message": "Does \"brz has clearly lost\" have any practical meaning?  Why would I care if it has lost if lots of people use it for lots of projects?", "group_id": 292, "id": 181615}, {"user_id": 1736, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298403103.8401749, "user_id": 5701}, {"date_created": 1298449648.0518789, "user_id": 6671}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298403051.7691691, "message": "@Vasil 1) git can use passwords just like everything else, and github offers HTTP access. 2) If you do any serious systems work I very much hope you have one of more public keys already setup and are using them.", "group_id": 292, "id": 181773}, {"user_id": 5701, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298403735.8070731, "message": "@coderanger: I understand the motivation.  But I lose much more time on sites like convore than I do trying to remember how to use hg, so it seems irrational to me to complain about having to drag out hg once in a while. :)", "group_id": 292, "id": 181899}, {"user_id": 4156, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298402202.8794539, "message": "Launchpad being difficult for most people to work with definitely doesn't help, either. If Github had been Bzrhub, perhaps it'd've been a different story.", "group_id": 292, "id": 181601}, {"user_id": 1736, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298403111.241493, "message": "@jpcalderone Ease of contribution from others. Ask @mitsuhiko about his experiment in using Github for Flask if you want a good case study.", "group_id": 292, "id": 181785}, {"user_id": 5701, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298403143.72542, "message": "@coderanger: Since I mostly work on Twisted, no one wants to contribute code to me anyway ;)", "group_id": 292, "id": 181787}, {"user_id": 4156, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298403168.404242, "user_id": 1736}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298403146.5480371, "message": "@coderanger Also, ssh agents. Unless @Vasil is using 7 different physical workstations day-to-day, he should be using an SSH agent to forward his private key to all other git-checking-out boxes", "group_id": 292, "id": 181788}, {"user_id": 1736, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298403212.7510021, "message": "@bitprophet I do have a laptop and two desktops (home, work) but even then it isn't a lot of work to copy around one file to 3 servers once.", "group_id": 292, "id": 181797}, {"user_id": 1736, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298403391.626173, "message": "@jpcalderone Speaking personally it isn't that binary, having to drag out bzr is raises the barrier of entry for me. I'm not going to contribute a one-line doc fix, but it wouldn't stop me if I needed to fix a major feature.", "group_id": 292, "id": 181830}, {"user_id": 1736, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298403164.818939, "message": "@jpcalderone Chicken meet egg ;-)", "group_id": 292, "id": 181790}, {"user_id": 5701, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298403435.798826, "user_id": 5778}, {"date_created": 1298699557.4654491, "user_id": 3617}, {"date_created": 1299423495.8060961, "user_id": 18539}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298403297.312207, "message": "@coderanger: I think the \"I won't contribute unless you're using tool X\" attitude is pretty sad though (not to deny that it exists though).  I regularly contribute to projects using svn, bzr, git, and hg.  There are far more important aspects of a project to consider.  The VCS choice is just something people can easily bikeshed about.", "group_id": 292, "id": 181814}, {"user_id": 4156, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298403362.750592, "message": "@coderanger It's not work, no, but it is a security risk IMO. But yea; one's key shouldn't change nearly enough that copying it to a few machines (if absolutely required) is a pain", "group_id": 292, "id": 181821}, {"user_id": 1736, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298405143.947046, "message": "@jpcalderone I never said it was rational :-) Even if you remove LP from the discussion, the same thing often happens between the github and bitbucket \"camps\" and there is even less of a technical reason for it there (both tools are entirely interchangeable for this use, ditto on the sites).", "group_id": 292, "id": 182108}, {"user_id": 915, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298416744.5549271, "message": "@zerok they have API documented, but documentation is pretty sparse, lacking and sometimes not up-to-date, plus API itself is ugly, non-intuitive and verbose.", "group_id": 292, "id": 184986}, {"user_id": 3751, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298446210.014869, "user_id": 1}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298444031.288523, "message": "Can anyone tell me why launchpad is so slow? (10s+ for a normal page loading)", "group_id": 292, "id": 186107}, {"user_id": 6671, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298449804.3457329, "message": "As to the 'bzr has lost' argument, I find it the other way around, actually.  The code I want is almost always available in bazaar, in a recognizable namespace.  A lot of projects I interact with in various ways do use launchpad, but even those I don't will typically have a VCS import.", "group_id": 292, "id": 186236}, {"user_id": 6671, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298449915.4238369, "message": "Github has a great code browser and if I end up in the right place, it's nice to poke around, but I find that most of the things I use from github are personal configuration files or code snippets, things which are closely associated with a given user.  If it's an official project with git hosting, I have to do a ton of reading and scanning before I can figure out if I'm looking at the real project or just some random guy's fork.", "group_id": 292, "id": 186239}, {"user_id": 6671, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298450331.4411781, "message": "Oops, I thought this was going to be a fair comparison because github had a mirror, but apparently it's dead: https://github.com/apache/solr", "group_id": 292, "id": 186246}, {"user_id": 6671, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298450452.5646701, "message": "But, still: that launchpad page is clearer than the github one; it says what the project is, I can look at trunk, it's got a link to the project group; there's actually a thing called a \"project group\", whereas git kinda fakes it by creating a user for a project group and then a repository for a project... sometimes", "group_id": 292, "id": 186249}, {"user_id": 6671, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298450317.4929211, "message": "Like, Twisted doesn't host our code on launchpad, but 'bzr get lp:twisted' will get you a reasonable facsimile of current trunk.  Similarly, (selecting a project at random here), the page for solr on launchpad tells you tons of stuff about solr, https://launchpad.net/solr - 'bzr get lp:solr' is a mirror of trunk, etc.", "group_id": 292, "id": 186245}, {"user_id": 13912, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298470556.7050371, "message": "@coderanger yes I know that, although github doesn't make it obvious. I do set up public keys to access servers although I loose them when I reinstall, but then I have a password as a backup when I have to do some quick maintenance. The problem with using SSH keys for VCS is that I prefer doing coding work in lots of different VMs which I have spread across 4 computers I use and and juggling around SSH keys is a chore. Plus my point is they are a barrier to entry. Windows users (which I'm not) have to install software to generate the keys.", "group_id": 292, "id": 187701}, {"user_id": 2362, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298472728.7356091, "message": "Launchpad is pretty insanely slow and clunky, but mostly slow.... and clunky.", "group_id": 292, "id": 187881}, {"user_id": 2362, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298472780.746665, "message": "@glyph: Just as an FYI, you can create organizations on GitHub now. So for example, a \"Twisted\" org would own the project, not an individual user, using the example of Twisted.", "group_id": 292, "id": 187884}, {"user_id": 6671, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298490714.316257, "user_id": 5701}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298476354.220371, "message": "@Vasil I have a similar setup, and I've never really found juggling SSH keys to be a chore; 'ssh-add; ssh -A' is certainly less of a chore than retyping my password 200 times a day.", "group_id": 292, "id": 188239}, {"user_id": 6671, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298486168.3138471, "user_id": 4156}, {"date_created": 1298490715.875232, "user_id": 5701}, {"date_created": 1298492735.3835659, "user_id": 242}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298476379.559634, "message": "(and _way_ less of a chore than cleaning up a server which has been rooted because I left password authentication enabled)", "group_id": 292, "id": 188243}, {"user_id": 13912, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298596311.550844, "message": "@glyph seriously I (or anyone who needs to do work) fear being locked away from a server in the most inconvenient moment far more than I fear someone bruteforcing their way into the root account judging by probability of both happening. I guess the second option has probability > 0 but unless they know the sudoer and password they have 3 chances to guess.", "group_id": 292, "id": 204713}, {"user_id": 13912, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298596361.7430811, "message": "... fail2ban", "group_id": 292, "id": 204719}, {"user_id": 1736, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298597486.4120679, "user_id": 5701}, {"date_created": 1298710701.3809581, "user_id": 11592}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298597255.3790419, "message": "I have my private key on my phone and a small USB cable in my bag when I go anywhere that isn't work. It would take some truly impressive circumstances to cut me off from my systems :-)", "group_id": 292, "id": 204809}, {"user_id": 13912, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298601203.9427559, "message": "@coderanger great idea!", "group_id": 292, "id": 205153}, {"user_id": 4156, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298607634.489975, "message": "@Vasil A whole lot of damage can be done by automated scanners if they find a vulnerability. Not only are there way more local exploits than remote ones, which can be leveraged by an unprivileged account, but these days much of the bad stuff that happens with compromised systems (sending spam, DDoS, hosting warez FTPs etc) can easily be done without needing root privileges.", "group_id": 292, "id": 205772}, {"user_id": 4156, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298607665.883265, "message": "And as @coderanger pointed out, it's pretty easy to travel with a copy of your key :)", "group_id": 292, "id": 205774}, {"user_id": 15977, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298648990.1538899, "message": "I used to loathe launchpad before I started working with Canonical (not on launchpad)", "group_id": 292, "id": 208840}, {"user_id": 15977, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298649005.3514769, "message": "the bzr integration is awesome - and if you're working with teams that do code review then it really rocks", "group_id": 292, "id": 208844}, {"user_id": 15977, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298649025.8423891, "message": "given that it was mainly designed for the canonical workflows I guess that's not surprising!", "group_id": 292, "id": 208851}, {"user_id": 242, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298704082.7010031, "user_id": 1}, {"date_created": 1298710739.5462019, "user_id": 11592}, {"date_created": 1298711851.3063149, "user_id": 6543}, {"date_created": 1298719700.874896, "user_id": 915}, {"date_created": 1298722165.506398, "user_id": 719}, {"date_created": 1298732877.3029079, "user_id": 214}, {"date_created": 1298752976.2568181, "user_id": 3617}, {"date_created": 1298825209.0805211, "user_id": 205}, {"date_created": 1299429414.5300989, "user_id": 3368}, {"date_created": 1299449587.039834, "user_id": 1535}, {"date_created": 1300486034.6465399, "user_id": 18773}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298704028.796757, "message": "I'm not sure why people have trouble keeping their SSH keys around.  Do you constantly lose your car/house keys?  No?  Good job put your SSH key there too.  And if you use a mac @glyph has solved this problem for you.  http://glyph.twistedmatrix.com/2009/02/using-ssh-keys-on-usb-drive-on-macos-x.html\n\nStill with me?  Good.  Buy a couple (or 4 or 5) of these: http://www.amazon.com/elago-Mobile-microSDHC-Memory-Reader/dp/B002HGFKR8/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1298703772&sr=8-2  and some 2gb sd cards.  Put nothing but your SSH key on here, and never put your SSH private key anywhere else.\n\nCreate a symlink from your USB volume to ~/.ssh/id_rsa and use something like this: https://github.com/dreid/bash-config/blob/master/dreid/sshkeys.sh in your bash config to prompt you to add the key when you open a new terminal if it isn't already added.", "group_id": 292, "id": 212989}, {"user_id": 1736, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298710703.1026349, "message": "@dreid That is an impressively good idea, sir. I salute you :-) Good place to store a GPG key and 1Password/KeePass files too.", "group_id": 292, "id": 213346}, {"user_id": 242, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298747772.220139, "message": "@coderanger In case it wasn't clear.  You should buy multiple so that you can have backups.", "group_id": 292, "id": 215282}, {"user_id": 13912, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298763820.972192, "message": "\"Do you constantly loose your car/house keys?\" - yes, constantly. If it was feaseable I'd change the door locks on my flat/car with keypads so I could use a password instead of a key. + a self-destruct or shoot poison arrows sequence on 3 misses.", "group_id": 292, "id": 215982}, {"user_id": 13912, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298764045.3879609, "message": "Seriously, I had 3 keys come with my car. After 5 years I have only one left - the reserve one without a remote. I know a day will come when I'll have to pay someone to break into my car.", "group_id": 292, "id": 215988}, {"user_id": 5701, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298781811.9808569, "user_id": 3617}, {"date_created": 1299028496.5915389, "user_id": 6671}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1298768683.17292, "message": "@Vasil Maybe you have some problems to work out that are unrelated to code/project hosting then :)", "group_id": 292, "id": 216090}, {"user_id": 18539, "stars": [{"date_created": 1299347065.187474, "user_id": 141}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299337710.0741749, "message": "So, people who prefer github: what do you use for issue tracking?", "group_id": 292, "id": 276377}, {"user_id": 141, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299347404.8065579, "message": "but the volume on my projects is low enough it doesn't really matter what I use.", "group_id": 292, "id": 276945}, {"user_id": 141, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299347200.349287, "message": "i use pivotal tracker on a couple projects, but that's bad for bug reports.", "group_id": 292, "id": 276918}, {"user_id": 141, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299347273.6106789, "message": "on another where there's feedback from people i've been collecting issues with uservoice.", "group_id": 292, "id": 276930}, {"user_id": 242, "stars": [{"date_created": 1299371400.469172, "user_id": 927}, {"date_created": 1299454766.04513, "user_id": 6671}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299350552.75563, "message": "@lvh github pull requests.  If it doesn't come with a patch I probably don't have time to fix it anyway. ;)", "group_id": 292, "id": 277164}, {"user_id": 15977, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299351000.2733259, "message": "Had this very problem with contributing to a project today.", "group_id": 292, "id": 277203}, {"user_id": 15977, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299350962.929333, "message": "right, so I *have* to use github to send you a patch", "group_id": 292, "id": 277196}, {"user_id": 15977, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299350975.067693, "message": "or use git and host somewhere else", "group_id": 292, "id": 277197}, {"user_id": 15977, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299350979.754061, "message": "I won't do either, so no worries", "group_id": 292, "id": 277199}, {"user_id": 15977, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299350991.242794, "message": "but I might have sent you a patch... ;-)", "group_id": 292, "id": 277202}, {"user_id": 242, "stars": [{"date_created": 1299359219.915859, "user_id": 3617}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299351327.657943, "message": "Version control systems are built for generating and managing patches.", "group_id": 292, "id": 277239}, {"user_id": 242, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299350942.2981291, "message": "@voidspace I said pull requests.  I don't use the issue tracker\u2026", "group_id": 292, "id": 277193}, {"user_id": 15977, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299350900.5974171, "message": "But given that you *can't* attach a patch to a github issue, that's kind of annoying...", "group_id": 292, "id": 277187}, {"user_id": 242, "stars": [{"date_created": 1299359211.6381221, "user_id": 3617}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299351139.241087, "message": "@voidspace Every project needs to enforce a process by which to deal with contributions.  Use github, is not significantly different from saying \"attach patch to tracker\".  Sure, you can choose to let people send you patches by any means necessary, but that doesn't scale.", "group_id": 292, "id": 277220}, {"user_id": 15977, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299351163.4893961, "message": "But a process that doesn't allow me to generate a patch and send it to you is user-hostile.", "group_id": 292, "id": 277224}, {"user_id": 15977, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299351172.850183, "message": "generate a patch *at all*", "group_id": 292, "id": 277226}, {"user_id": 15977, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299351203.75351, "message": "Not having an issue tracker shows a lack of process.", "group_id": 292, "id": 277232}, {"user_id": 15977, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299351734.0356441, "message": "or discussions of issues", "group_id": 292, "id": 277281}, {"user_id": 15977, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299351725.9516289, "message": "but not for managing issues", "group_id": 292, "id": 277279}, {"user_id": 1736, "stars": [{"date_created": 1299359227.1283159, "user_id": 3617}, {"date_created": 1299980856.0346529, "user_id": 12791}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299358107.97103, "message": "@voidspace But the GH pull request system is built for tracking discussions, and in a much more code-centric manner than most ticketing system (closer to a code-review framework than a ticket system).", "group_id": 292, "id": 277631}, {"user_id": 15977, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299358988.0524869, "message": "Yeah, if I can't report an issue and attach a patch that fixes it then WTF!?", "group_id": 292, "id": 277681}, {"user_id": 2313, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299358407.255307, "message": "even though github's pull requests are awesome an actually useful issue tracker would be nice though. bitbucket manages this...", "group_id": 292, "id": 277652}, {"user_id": 15977, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299362203.773988, "message": "and hell, you can require people to sing the national anthem backwards whilst standing on their heads before they can contribute to your project if you *want*. If reducing the number of contributors is the goal then there are *lots* of ways of achieving that. :-)", "group_id": 292, "id": 277775}, {"user_id": 18539, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299364607.304456, "message": "@dreid I think these things are linked & orthogonal though (managing code in pull requests and managing issues) -- just because you probably can't fix it now doesn't mean it's not worth noting (especially for projects that have more traction and manpower). Plus, perhaps the bug report is made by someone who's just a user and literally can't, even if they wanted to. Perhaps the bug is quite subtle and requires careful meditation before an appropriate patch can be devised...", "group_id": 292, "id": 277854}, {"user_id": 18539, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299363960.449657, "message": "Hate to plug my own thing but I wrote something up about this and I'm currently gathering responses and hope to end up with a list of things to fix: http://b.lvh.cc/why-do-people-hate-launchpad-so-much", "group_id": 292, "id": 277825}, {"user_id": 18539, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299363750.2264521, "message": "Hey, so people talking about GH pull requests: have you seen Launchpad's merge proposals? I'd love to chat about this but I'm not sure if I need to start explaining and if so, where -- the point is that LP lets you keep awesome GH pull requests 2.0 and have a usable bugtracker to go with it", "group_id": 292, "id": 277819}, {"user_id": 18539, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299364625.1936531, "message": "(In short, I think not using a bug tracker is unthinkable, and pull requests are not a suitable replacement for one.)", "group_id": 292, "id": 277855}, {"user_id": 18539, "stars": [{"date_created": 1299366865.0357039, "user_id": 3617}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299365559.3220451, "message": "This is a part of the Fossil story I dislike, actually: the random contributor story. Clone, make some changes... How do I get patches back upstream? In an era of merge proposals and pull requests \"make a patch and send it to a developer and hope he merges it for you\" is the equivalent of \"screw you and your patches\"", "group_id": 292, "id": 277886}, {"user_id": 3617, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299366924.514354, "message": "@lvh +1 there. Patches are really a roll of the dice anymore and are pretty much replaced by DVCS's.", "group_id": 292, "id": 277918}, {"user_id": 927, "stars": [{"date_created": 1299371796.5216041, "user_id": 214}, {"date_created": 1299372897.362983, "user_id": 3617}, {"date_created": 1299378759.6186271, "user_id": 5778}, {"date_created": 1299382435.5265551, "user_id": 1}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299371485.8501329, "message": "@voidspace Isn't it pretty easy to paste into a gist and link to that? It's one extra step but it's not that different from the extra steps most issue trackers require to upload files and can be a lot faster if you have more than one", "group_id": 292, "id": 278072}, {"user_id": 18539, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299421737.8411319, "message": "@acdha Right, but why would you do that now that they've made such great work of pull requests?", "group_id": 292, "id": 280168}, {"user_id": 927, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299422560.3105161, "message": "@lvh Only for @voidspace's scenario where you don't want to fork. I do that all the time", "group_id": 292, "id": 280179}, {"user_id": 18539, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299423597.3469579, "message": "@acdha I thought the issue was that you couldn't attach pull requests to tickets, sorry", "group_id": 292, "id": 280214}, {"user_id": 214, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299428908.9180031, "message": "@lvh Actually, pull requests automatically create a ticket.", "group_id": 292, "id": 280660}, {"user_id": 15977, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299430627.9178391, "message": "@acdha that's what I did, only after spending time wondering how to attach a patch to an issue thinking that because its so basic github *must* support it, complaining on twitter and someone suggesting gist.github which I had no idea existed.", "group_id": 292, "id": 280852}, {"user_id": 18539, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299435470.2421601, "message": "@carljm Yes, I know: that's my point -- they *are* a ticket (issue tracker artifcat) in their own right instead of being attachable to a ticket.", "group_id": 292, "id": 281279}, {"user_id": 18539, "stars": [{"date_created": 1299441115.081461, "user_id": 4156}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299435941.9977081, "message": "@acdha That's strange: I actually want to structure development entirely around pull requests (not even just from forks, even my own code), an it still annoys me. Primarily because I can't link the pulling of code with the issue warranting the pull (pull requests being an issue tracker artifact in their own right works for features from random contributors, but that means I can't use my issue tracker for storing future feature ideas or bugs: because then there's N issue tracker artifacts for 1 issue). Secondly because there's just so many niceties missing that they expect you to implement using tags (assigning to someone in particular, severity, priority, tracking status downstream...)", "group_id": 292, "id": 281318}, {"user_id": 927, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299433785.4578681, "message": "@voidspace I definitely would agree that the GitHub issue tracker could use more work but I think part of this is probably running against the grain of the fork / pull mindset they're so focused on", "group_id": 292, "id": 281163}, {"user_id": 18539, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299435696.081923, "message": "Has anyone used Pivotal Tracker in a real project? It looks good for a team working on a project full time but I can't really see it working that well for something like an open source project where contribution is less clearly structured.", "group_id": 292, "id": 281290}, {"user_id": 927, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299436555.153724, "message": "@lvh Hence the \"more work\" comment - I'd even go so far as to say basic performance needs to get more attention. That said, I don't think the problem is the pull model so much as UI - simply being able to link a pull request to an issue or merge them would cover most of my complaints.", "group_id": 292, "id": 281374}, {"user_id": 18539, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299437870.684727, "message": "@acdha Right, the pull model is pretty much as good as it's going to get: they're direct reflections of how the underlying VCS works, and bzr's idea of \"don't even fork a repository\" is pretty incompatible with git's ideas of what a repository and a branch are. All of this is definitely a UI problem, both for github and launchpad", "group_id": 292, "id": 281438}, {"user_id": 214, "stars": [{"date_created": 1299445911.1179409, "user_id": 141}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299442161.634877, "message": "@lvh I use Pivotal Tracker daily, and it's awesome for a team. But I wouldn't use it either for an open-source ticket tracker, it's not built for that.", "group_id": 292, "id": 281557}, {"user_id": 18539, "stars": [{"date_created": 1299484800.5864291, "user_id": 11592}, {"date_created": 1299514120.827409, "user_id": 14578}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299463343.693064, "message": "Hey, so, I had an idea. People who really want to use github, how would you feel about the following. I mirror trunk of my Launchpad project to github. You can fork/develop/whatever it is you do there. When you're done and you want to send me code, you send me a pull request on github. My software detects the pull request and creates a merge proposal on Launchpad (the idea is that everything should be in one place). Since merge proposals and pull requests are virtually identical to each other, that should not be a problem. Additionally, if you name your branch a particular way, which you should, I will automagically link your merge proposal to a Launchpad bug for you. I would indeed be using Launchpad bugs -- or is there anyone who prefers Github Issues over Launchpad's bugtracker? The net result is basically that you don't have to use not-github if you don't want to except for bug tracking (which LP quite frankly does better) and merge proposals (which LP does pretty much identically to GH)", "group_id": 292, "id": 283413}, {"user_id": 11592, "stars": [{"date_created": 1299571530.0379031, "user_id": 1}, {"date_created": 1299577156.3823581, "user_id": 3368}, {"date_created": 1299593455.964417, "user_id": 5778}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299571356.8946791, "message": "http://sheddingbikes.com/posts/1299555462.html zed shaw on launchpad vs git from another perspecitve", "group_id": 292, "id": 294888}, {"user_id": 18539, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299587226.915555, "message": "Yay! Someone important linked to my blog post! I'm, like, a G list blogger now \\o/ Seriously though: how do you people who prefer Github feel about my yoinking pull requests off of Github idea? Would that be sufficient? I'm not going to build it if people are all \"yeah, whatever, it's still Launchpad\"", "group_id": 292, "id": 295668}, {"user_id": 5778, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299593505.5559189, "message": "@lvh It's still raunchpad", "group_id": 292, "id": 296169}, {"user_id": 18539, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299597345.4578609, "message": "Got this feedback (I appreciate the feedback! Honestly) https://twitter.com/#!/ewornj/status/45128072583843840 What the hell", "group_id": 292, "id": 296683}, {"user_id": 214, "stars": [{"date_created": 1299605471.074147, "user_id": 1}, {"date_created": 1299612261.0486619, "user_id": 6671}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299598619.7892621, "message": "@lvh To be honest, I'm not too attracted by the bridging idea. I generally  have better luck buckling down and learning something directly rather than trying to use some rickety bridge or leaky abstraction that's supposed to make it more like some other thing I already know.", "group_id": 292, "id": 296849}, {"user_id": 18539, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299598217.4797029, "message": "It's like people telling me they hate waffles", "group_id": 292, "id": 296757}, {"user_id": 18539, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299598774.380795, "message": "Ugh. Okay, looks like I'm going to use Github and Lighthouse/Pivotal then.", "group_id": 292, "id": 296899}, {"user_id": 214, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1299600462.1183851, "message": "@lvh Lighthouse is a very nice tracker. Like I said above, I wouldn't recommend Pivotal for open-source bug-tracking.", "group_id": 292, "id": 297182}, {"user_id": 18539, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1300024291.9382441, "message": "@bitprophet Ping", "group_id": 292, "id": 340975}, {"user_id": 3751, "stars": [{"date_created": 1300424676.3296909, "user_id": 214}, {"date_created": 1300483475.946959, "user_id": 4156}], "topic_id": 7958, "date_created": 1300423281.1439531, "message": "Pivotal Tracker is for SCRUM, kinds of agile process tool. Trac/Redmine/Lighthuse and even Roundup is better for issue tracking", "group_id": 292, "id": 379832}]