convore.json/groups/software-architecture/models-and-services/messages.json

[{"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908130.9583709, "message": "I think you should decouple your hand from your member.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128412}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908160.1731901, "message": "clever", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128421}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908200.7404611, "message": "shit - you've attracted a few people to debate your models.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128428}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908294.382149, "message": "Doesn't robot legs need it to extend actor so it can Inject?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128446}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908387.0148001, "message": "but its good to swap out the service", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128472}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908402.712893, "message": "mine extends an interface, and I can place a mock data service in its place", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128475}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908465.7878621, "message": "hmm", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128485}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908483.6119299, "message": "please explain", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128491}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908483.9923711, "message": "plus your model has to worry about managing that state while it's service is loading - which is not it's responsibility", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128492}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908498.456032, "message": "in my framework, events fire commands, commands talk to service, service fires events, those events update the model", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128495}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909323.7953191, "message": "that's its data", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128654}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909383.4066529, "message": "by calling service.load()", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128666}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909452.036922, "message": "end of example", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128672}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909589.86941, "message": "well if you've got a view that's a list of your friends", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128707}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908494.1668401, "message": "Dude this is exactly the convo we had earlier", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128493}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908210.132936, "message": "It's an attractive debate", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128430}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908253.4455731, "message": "If a Service extends EventDispatcher, how is it less testable than if it extends Actor?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128435}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908285.9819651, "message": "I am not sure why services extend Actor, they only dispatch events in RL", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128444}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908313.236963, "message": "that may be the only reason to extend actor", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128450}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908323.8784859, "message": "We inject services a lot", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128453}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908899.4369979, "message": "i'll inject a model into a mediator and act upon the model directly from there", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128571}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908914.3640709, "message": "i think its not totally breaking rules to do that in RL", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128575}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909167.3783309, "message": "you are injecting the service into the model?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128622}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909174.33706, "message": "and the models into the mediators i suppose", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128623}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909213.2714801, "message": "you basically killed all commands", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128628}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910479.808985, "message": "i have something similar, service for local file management, and one for dealing with the server and upload/download files", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128849}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910484.2928131, "message": "@killerspaz the Model doesn't actually add/delete data", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128851}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910511.8759301, "message": "reads are done sync and writes are async", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128856}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910550.0600049, "message": "yeah the model is just a conduit to the local database", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128866}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908637.420229, "message": "https://convore.com/twitterChats/test/", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128526}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908703.9776249, "message": "A service is part of you model", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128538}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908822.533428, "message": "We could argue we should be using DAOs as well, but you don't typically see that in as3", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128558}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908855.2084489, "message": "And a model should be immutable", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128563}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908911.953341, "message": "Btw, you keep going on about commands only accesing the model, a mediator is tcapable as well", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128574}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909010.0880949, "message": "Ditto", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128594}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909117.504735, "message": "Ok so then this convo is moot... DI doesn't change MVC", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128614}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909465.1717529, "message": "sorry, had to switch to a pc", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128674}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909473.677295, "message": "ok guys... i think you are drinking some koolaid", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128675}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909621.5956981, "message": "technically yes", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128717}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909663.348531, "message": "no, it's not semantics", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128725}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909675.253561, "message": "it's not transitive", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128727}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909734.111105, "message": "the model would be your DTO", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128741}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910345.4258111, "message": "why do you requery the db?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128830}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909462.954284, "message": "I see", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128673}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908377.093323, "message": "my understanding of MVCS is that the M and the S work together to provide data to the V", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128469}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908446.2668259, "message": "but if a model has to be instantiated to load it's data, then it's already born a liar.  in an invalid state", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128481}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908477.5598609, "message": "i don't grasp what you're saying marty", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128489}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908582.0715261, "message": "i would say User is a VO", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128513}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908592.257725, "message": "i say its  a VO as well", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128515}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908636.8299451, "message": "that's one way", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128525}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908713.3819301, "message": "where in RL service is usually talked to through command", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128541}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908841.932718, "message": "so in RL you would have the command call a method on the model, which in turn calls the service it needs", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128561}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908876.4500251, "message": "@thanksmister that seems like a lot of unnecessary commands", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128565}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908955.284095, "message": "Who cares about RL, its common MVC theory", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128580}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908974.4278669, "message": "A command just satisfies SPR and DRY", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128584}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909043.3550899, "message": "for jamcloud", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128601}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909210.600821, "message": "Listening to you guys I think I use a different term for model.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128627}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909244.2207711, "message": "well, people like rules", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128634}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909260.3929379, "message": "i actually dig what you are doing", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128642}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909562.3405139, "message": "if you desire, via a layer such as remote services, or database, etc", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128699}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909686.5011549, "message": "entity is a model.. a relationship model", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128730}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910528.7207839, "message": "like a queue, and basically the remote is just a sync", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128862}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910699.4258981, "message": "ok - so updates from sql are sent to the model, and the mediator gets notified from there?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128892}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909776.1687989, "message": "@thanksmister You mean having Mediators addContextListener() for RL events instead of commands? I use Commands for things like when an event could come from multiple sources.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128751}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908024.2991691, "message": "Welcome to a positive discussion about the relative merits of decoupling services from models, or not.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128396}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908096.098969, "message": "I'm not sure if I can commit to rebuttals beyond 140 characters.  This is really cutting into my porn time.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128407}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908154.0558691, "message": "I would, but the class where I normally inject it is away.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128419}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908216.838294, "message": "So I stopped paying attention after 3", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128431}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908270.7327471, "message": "I don't know robot legs, so I can't comment on Actor.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128438}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908317.3611431, "message": "That's my point, though. Why is anyone injecting services to begin with?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128451}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908333.236711, "message": "well, i inject signals into it", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128455}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908341.5768149, "message": "and use those as events", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128457}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908341.6810091, "message": "I haven't used signals, yet.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128458}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908350.532423, "message": "i don't inject anything else into my service layer", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128461}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908356.5184901, "message": "I only inject services in Commands", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128462}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908368.0772331, "message": "allows us to run the app in stubs mode, wihtout services at all - and using different services for different runtimes (eg AIR vs web)", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128467}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908368.8172319, "message": "my service holds no data", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128468}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908399.3264, "message": "M does business logic on the data that S loads and parses (though S might hand off responsibility for the parsing to a F)", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128474}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908418.0062411, "message": "@thanksmister - ditto", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128476}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908421.159364, "message": "same here", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128477}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908422.7189059, "message": "nothing wrong with that model, even in RL", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128478}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908442.595084, "message": "i think you are just referring to the Actor part of the service", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128480}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908459.953851, "message": "which allows us to inject \"stuff\" if needed", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128482}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908521.7126329, "message": "the state is updated from model udpates", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128499}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908538.1708541, "message": "manage what state?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128503}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908545.6522069, "message": "@martypitt ^", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128505}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908552.2972929, "message": "is that state of data or state of application?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128507}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908575.275799, "message": "hm", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128511}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908563.8726759, "message": "@steven If I want to load a user, in your approach I'd go\nvar user:new User();\nuser.load();", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128509}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908980.6541779, "message": "mediator listening for that event sets the data on the view", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128585}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909126.1277139, "message": "correct!", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128615}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909156.506918, "message": "it's about whether my shortcut is inherently flawed and why", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128620}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909255.4671161, "message": "ie., if you're calling userModel.load(), and that calls a service, and stores the list of users, that sounds like a repository to me.  When I think of models, I think of Domain models (ie., a User)", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128638}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909534.0322709, "message": "That's just semantics.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128690}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910517.5683401, "message": "wait, the model doesn't add/delete?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128857}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909569.6706519, "message": "However, I prefer the idea that my Model could be populated from any number of sources.  And, I might have more than one model at any given time.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128701}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909714.56147, "message": "an entity is part of your domain model.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128735}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909723.4843071, "message": "Friend, Post, ChatMessage are all part of a domain model.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128737}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909785.6243041, "message": "No.  In fact, There's a pretty clear distinction between Model and DTO/VO ... a model has behaviour, VO's are dumb.  (At least, that's the Bob Martin definition of it)", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128752}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909978.287349, "message": "@stevensacks  so in that context, when a command updates 3 mediators, do you then update 3 models inside mediators, if need be?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128779}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910279.4591241, "message": "i say to the server insert this item. now, select all items after the most recent change i have (which would be before this latest insert).", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128820}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910319.844831, "message": "you don't want to go through the model to do that operation", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128826}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910442.2143819, "message": "when something needs to go to the server, a command handles that", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128846}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910491.12379, "message": "@martypitt it's either", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128853}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910503.7819109, "message": "@martypitt i actually have two connections to it, one sync and one async", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128854}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910621.367774, "message": "jamcloud is inherently an online application. you cannot use it unless you're online.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128877}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908577.582834, "message": "therefore, user now has to know if it's loaded from ther service or not", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128512}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908601.6254959, "message": "and stored in the model", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128519}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908622.8605821, "message": "UserModel.load()", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128523}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908628.0485549, "message": "and it loads the users", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128524}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908637.997627, "message": "Isn't that a service then?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128527}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908657.5984769, "message": "isn't what a service", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128528}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908750.8903849, "message": "I prefer the command approach.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128544}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908936.8208439, "message": "let's say view dispatches a refresh event", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128577}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908943.31161, "message": "b/c the user clicked on a refresh button", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128578}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908951.2944169, "message": "mediator listens for that event", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128579}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908999.8103521, "message": "to update views", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128588}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909083.6748559, "message": "i like it dude", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128609}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909128.758842, "message": "if it's only one thing that could dispatch that particular event, you don't need a command", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128616}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909131.6269519, "message": "and steve has a shortcut", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128617}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910152.429734, "message": "So I am thinking through your drag/drop example in my context", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128807}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910364.5708539, "message": "there's a Facade that communicates with the server", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128833}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910375.1471281, "message": "we can call that a service if you want", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128836}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911532.210762, "message": "or you can just have the mediator listen and act directly upon the model", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129034}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911542.670366, "message": "model being a business logic wrapper for a dataset", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129036}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911543.0124741, "message": "gotcha.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129037}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911555.090143, "message": "and service being the means by which the model gets its data", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129039}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911668.4946599, "message": "and really, in AS3, it's primarily a parser since loading is handled by Loader, or SQLService, or whatever", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129046}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908583.626034, "message": "and, user is in an invalid state", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128514}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908594.325644, "message": "UserModel manages Users", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128516}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908601.8625641, "message": "manages being a loose term", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128520}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908615.4212029, "message": "and the model leverages a UserService to load the data of users", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128521}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908619.3963251, "message": "so i say", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128522}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908698.9914949, "message": "well from what service that is", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128536}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908774.682189, "message": "so for example", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128549}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908775.3274729, "message": "so, if you don't need to inject anything into the service, it deosnt' need to extend Actor and can be used from the model", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128550}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908793.223258, "message": "UserModel.sort(\"lastName\")", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128552}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908814.6134779, "message": "each of those results in an update event being fired, but nobody except the model cares about the service that actually loads the data", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128556}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908930.3734901, "message": "i can see accessing model directly from mediator", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128576}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908971.9885781, "message": "model dispatches complete event", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128583}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910114.3366001, "message": "its interesting, my current project requires a lot of file management, drag/drop events, upload, etc.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128804}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910200.5568399, "message": "A simple example of the triangle in JamCloud is this. There's the client, the server and the local database (this is AIR). The client tells the server to insert an item in the user's library. The server responds whether or not it was successful. If it was successful, the client asks the server for the updated library, which the client receives but routes to the local store, which then writes it to the local database, and the store dispatches an update event which is received by the view's model.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128809}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910242.9476099, "message": "it doesn't even know that this data comes from the web", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128814}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910249.0865281, "message": "well it's a diffing engine", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128815}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910291.0302949, "message": "well it does not happen in a model", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128822}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910293.781996, "message": "there's a command for it", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128823}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910312.67103, "message": "right, cus if you drop native files on your app, you just want to upload them using the servcie", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128825}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910343.560616, "message": "ok so", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128829}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910396.2917399, "message": "and there are services for interacting with the local database", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128843}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910457.448211, "message": "ah", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128847}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910461.3151131, "message": "i'm not using async commands here", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128848}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910523.5436721, "message": "no", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128859}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910526.5997059, "message": "not in JamCloud", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128860}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910535.1651919, "message": "but that's specific to this implementation", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128863}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910537.1549151, "message": "it's not normal", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128865}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910713.747715, "message": "it is but we play streaming videos so you have to be connected", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128894}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908666.011018, "message": "userModel.load();", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128531}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908682.900877, "message": "I think we're talking at cross purposes here...", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128533}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908691.505358, "message": "the fact that the data is coming from a service is hidden", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128534}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908693.1484649, "message": "i think steve is saying that the usermodel holds a reference to the service", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128535}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908699.6248069, "message": "i mean", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128537}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908712.6305039, "message": "i could switch from XMLService to SQLService", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128540}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908760.5598409, "message": "UserModel.load() will ask its service to load (if it needs to) and when its service is done loading, the model does whatever business logic is needs to on the data and then dispatches an update.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128545}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908781.284339, "message": "i could say UserModel.load()", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128551}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908882.9374659, "message": "it does tend to be", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128567}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908883.9207931, "message": "i use commands just not like that", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128568}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908955.579253, "message": "calls model.load()", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128581}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908983.771323, "message": "done", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128586}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909001.9442461, "message": "yes", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128591}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909006.6013031, "message": "interesting", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128592}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909008.4556279, "message": "if need be", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128593}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909012.8908279, "message": "RL is flexible enough to use it the way you describe i think", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128595}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909017.7204399, "message": "and if it's mapped as a singleton", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128596}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909022.433316, "message": "the best part is just the injection", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128598}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909030.7454939, "message": "well i'm doing it in jamcloud which is built with RL so", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128599}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909040.0428009, "message": "so that is how you set it up", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128600}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909055.833441, "message": "most of my communication between models and views happens in mediators, yes", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128603}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909067.7203951, "message": "that would cut down on a shit load of events for me", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128604}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909072.2897961, "message": "it does for me", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128605}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909074.288589, "message": "@killerspaz - I use Parsley.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128606}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909075.624553, "message": "and commands, as well", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128607}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909077.9012461, "message": "yeah, i have used others", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128608}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909088.3665869, "message": "i follow the jesse warden theory on Commands", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128610}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909090.5740471, "message": "i think its perfectly fine to do it that way", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128611}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909098.4806111, "message": "hehe, and whats that?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128613}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909145.4002399, "message": "well the question is not about whether i have a shortcut", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128618}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909254.13708, "message": "but i think its fine", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128637}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909511.47577, "message": "two differences - but one is just terminology (ie., model = Friend, FriendModel = repository)", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128684}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909622.9722099, "message": "Model == entity.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128719}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910019.8770511, "message": "I guess you only have one model responsible for media files in the application", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128784}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908728.9657791, "message": "You can take things to the n-th degree in everything", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128542}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909497.706084, "message": "and thanksmister, you had it wrong, that's not a repository, that's an entity", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128683}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909728.4862349, "message": "it's the DAO if you will", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128739}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909975.7876339, "message": "I thought you would be saying user.load(), which I now understand you're niot.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128778}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910055.191546, "message": "SPR = single purpose of responsibility", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128791}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910081.3331959, "message": "i don't want to have to search for code that's only used in one place", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128799}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910685.4239309, "message": "but not relying on the cloud", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128890}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908896.98351, "message": "especially if you round trip from the servcie back to the model through events", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128570}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908995.723269, "message": "so steve, you would inject the same model in more than one mediator", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128587}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297908999.976156, "message": "But if its unique, it should belong in the associated mediator", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128589}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909051.893641, "message": "Have you guys ever used any other mvc frameworks?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128602}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909152.0208099, "message": "A mediator is your controller, and is legal to access you model", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128619}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909161.9722071, "message": "yeah, its perfectly legal, so its a true shortcut", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128621}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909190.6991351, "message": "i don't see a flaw, other than others might prefer more decoupling", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128625}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909198.4550741, "message": "I'm saying its the definition of MVC, to do anything else is just abstraction", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128626}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909224.6720581, "message": "But abstraction and decoupling are exclusive", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128630}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909231.405993, "message": "i don't see the problem with having a model instantiate a service. yes, it's \"coupled\" but i guess that's because i see a service as being something that used to be written into a model but now just separate responsibility", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128632}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909250.0035369, "message": "and you friend, like to bend them", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128636}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909269.131856, "message": "cus i have too many friggen commands and events already", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128644}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909305.081167, "message": "I've got a FriendsModel", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128650}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909321.081053, "message": "it contains a Vector.<Friend>", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128653}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909350.6022789, "message": "the FriendsModel could use a FriendsService", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128658}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909355.1879311, "message": "that loads from a remote server", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128659}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909379.006331, "message": "and the FriendsModel will automatically refresh its data on a timer (say every 10 minutes)", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128663}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909421.9916849, "message": "and the mediator will listen to the view for say a column sort event and say model.sort(columnName) and the model will sort its data and dispatch an update and the mediator will listen for it and then set the data on the view", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128668}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909263.6088591, "message": "@martypitt i guess you're right. i thought a model was for running business logic on data and a service is for loading and parsing raw data for a model to work with", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128643}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909476.395529, "message": "@martypitt how does this differ from your definition of a model. i'm interested to learn.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128677}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910058.8685119, "message": "right", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128792}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910767.5171909, "message": "ok kids, i gotta run, the wifey is picking me up from school, this conversation gets saved right?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128902}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910774.3540699, "message": "yeah i think so TM", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128904}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911049.100744, "message": "the facades that \"wrap\" access to the services", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128952}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911301.4432499, "message": "right -- I'm with you now.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128998}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909288.329459, "message": "quick trivial example:", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128648}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909447.9055901, "message": "if the model doesn't have data when it loads, it will ask the service for the data", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128670}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909972.685771, "message": "Yeah so for example, in JamCloud you can add media items to your library. You can do it by clicking Add on the media item, you can do it by dragging and dropping it onto a side menu item, etc.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128777}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910756.2891381, "message": "@killerspaz in a perfect world, i would have time to write a transactional table to allow a user to \"queue up\" inserts/deletes/moves", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128900}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911034.8274901, "message": "the facades are singletons", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128948}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909477.4696541, "message": "aside from steven", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128679}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909525.9166231, "message": "no no, a repository acts on entities", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128687}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909539.092087, "message": "entities act on models", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128693}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909559.6722, "message": "so each friend in a list of friends is a Model?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128698}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909603.7414651, "message": "is each row in that list a model?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128711}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909699.252811, "message": "an entity is not a domain model", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128732}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910034.258486, "message": "jamcloud has a fairly complicated triangle", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128787}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910039.595372, "message": "well it's not complicated per se", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128789}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910242.890918, "message": "Man - that's full on", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128813}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909636.9068539, "message": "(In my terminology. But lets not get hung up on semantics)", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128721}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909724.0268741, "message": "it's an abstraction", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128738}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909865.0046461, "message": "@martypitt i think we're saying the same t hing in your last statement... a DAO would be your entity, and would act on your DTO to return a subset, or a view model", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128764}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909923.184253, "message": "Dont Repeat Yourself", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128771}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910273.316138, "message": "I'd use commands for that, if onlly to have a way to encapsulate that full operation.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128819}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909914.7059381, "message": "@stevensacks thanks for the additional info on that, but sorry, DRY?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128770}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910430.1818969, "message": "the Models that are injected for JamCloud's view mediators are communicating with the local database (for the most part)", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128845}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910565.5183849, "message": "this triangle took a long time to work out hehe", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128867}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910663.0877299, "message": "the Model is the local storage (so to speak)", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128883}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910677.717344, "message": "ok Model has services inside it that are SQLServicess", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128887}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910724.558795, "message": "@martypitt - right", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128896}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911866.57409, "message": "thanks! i'm glad we figured out what eachother meant.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129058}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911509.8899629, "message": "so as thanksmister pointed out earlier, it's a ton of commands that end up being just one line of code in the execute function", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129028}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909835.4992001, "message": "@thanksmister such as if you have an item selected you could click an Add button, or press CTRL+A, or drag and drop it somewhere else.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128758}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910019.4590621, "message": "and having the same code in multiple places, i just write a command for it and write it once", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128783}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910046.188231, "message": "it was a fun challenge to figure out", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128790}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910064.57796, "message": "@killerspaz", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128795}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910537.0843959, "message": "so you refresh the data on file deletion?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128864}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910768.9167609, "message": "but that is a project for after launch ;)", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128903}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910815.3098321, "message": "cool, great info guys, @stevensacks you were eye opening", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128910}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910901.962512, "message": "i'm not a fan of singletons either", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128923}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909857.951062, "message": "@thanksmister having 3 mediators listen for that one event and handle it is not DRY, so a Command helps me DRY my code there.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128762}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910001.1829519, "message": "rather than inject the actors responsible for adding media to your library in every location", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128782}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910025.0856941, "message": "heh no", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128786}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910570.451364, "message": "i bet, shit", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128870}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910968.3086259, "message": "well what singletons do you perceive me having?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128935}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910983.0187769, "message": "all of the services that communicate with the server are not singletons", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128938}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911001.1257451, "message": "i instantiate them, they add themselves to a queue", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128941}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911008.8083601, "message": "they all have an execute() function", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128943}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909927.0179529, "message": "basically code re-use", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128772}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297909962.528842, "message": "@stevensacks - I misundersttod your initial posts because of mixed terminology.  I still prefer a command which is responsible for loading a userModel and returning it, but it's not that different from UserModel.load(), providing the service is injected into the model.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128776}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910064.241679, "message": "if it's used more than once, command dat hoe", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128794}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910069.2238879, "message": "@killerspaz : here's how I use those terms.  DAO = Data Access Object, typically responsible for loading data from a db, and generally not in the AS / Flex layer.\nDTO / VO = Data transfer object, and used for passing data structures between serailzation forms (eg XML, JSON).  Often deseiralzied into a ...\nModel : An object which represents part of your domain.  Can perform actions on it.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128796}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910069.7907341, "message": "if not, keep it in a mediator", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128797}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910288.717916, "message": "are you using any ORM?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128821}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910357.337321, "message": "you have the update already in your model, don't you?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128832}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910508.8076589, "message": "why not a transaction table?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128855}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910631.5190749, "message": "hm, so what's the point of the local db?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128879}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910232.7129819, "message": "so the model doesn't have anything to do with the writing part, it only handles reading, sorting, filtering of local data", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128812}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910379.85585, "message": "it has services behind the facade", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128839}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910587.468529, "message": "it's extremely efficient", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128874}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910720.5756271, "message": "right", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128895}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911171.768465, "message": "adds complete and error listeners", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128973}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911228.663259, "message": "right so they say", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128985}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911448.6273501, "message": "routed to the view means listened to by the mediator which updates the view", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129020}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911608.779844, "message": "i can see the argument for a service being decoupled making sense, but it seems like so many more custom events and commands have to be written to support it", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129043}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911758.4369349, "message": "so your idea of a model is still interesting to me", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129049}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297912003.6667981, "message": "believe me, i'm generally against coupling. except when it makes sense because there's no way those two things would ever be logically separated. then it just comes down to single responsibility. there's no reason a model couldn't have a loader and a parser inside it, so i guess your point is that my \"model\" is actually a glorified service, and perhaps i'm not actually using models are they technically meant to be used.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129070}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297912168.091085, "message": "service = new Service(); service.addEventListener(Event.COMPLETE, onServiceComplete);", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129080}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910346.177031, "message": "to be clear here", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128831}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910367.4896491, "message": "so a single command calls the service and upon its return, or drip to the local storage, send events to update model a", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128834}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910387.9994709, "message": "so there are services for interacting with the server", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128841}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910389.4519911, "message": "ok", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128842}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911923.216131, "message": "yeah - just semantics.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129063}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910481.3504159, "message": "In AIR, is Local database access Sync or Async?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128850}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910666.237699, "message": "well not really", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128884}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910669.1669631, "message": "i would have treated it as a local app that syncs to the cloud", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128885}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910687.269417, "message": "sortof i mean it's abstracted but i'm talking conceptually", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128891}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910755.7608681, "message": "gotcha.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128899}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910973.882076, "message": "How do you guys test that triangle round-trip?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128936}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911118.799994, "message": "LibraryServiceFacade is a singleton", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128962}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911164.4217589, "message": "instantiates LibrarySelectService", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128971}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911232.2062371, "message": "[Inject]", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128986}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911259.1028819, "message": "then say facade.mediaDelete(items);", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128989}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911424.24512, "message": "yeah and then the facade is listening for the response, when it comes back it calls sync(), which runs select until the local database is synced with the server and then stops. each select response writes to the local store which dispatches events to robotlegs which are routed to the view, so the view can update while the data is coming back from the server. it doesn't have to wait until it's all back.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129016}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910599.966537, "message": "but what if their network conenction dies", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128875}, {"user_id": 11947, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910604.5360799, "message": "then they lose their state?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128876}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911318.233973, "message": "I'm totally onboard with this approach.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129000}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911328.6996541, "message": "I just use different words to describe it :)", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129003}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910946.257833, "message": "Injecting an object isnt' the same as instantiating it though.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128931}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911942.000051, "message": "I like the idea of a repository, as it indicates a place where things are held - data, etc.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129065}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911966.3064721, "message": "To me, a model is part of a domain, and frequently returning from the repository.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129068}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297912095.7327001, "message": "I don't think I'd put a parser inside a Model / Repository, I'd definitely keep that inside the service.  But I see your rationale for putting the service (by interface) on the model.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129077}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297912810.1808381, "message": "i see", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129133}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910636.750618, "message": "I dunno, still feels like your mediator learns about data from two places -- it's Model, and listening for events from local storage?  (or am I missing something?)", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128881}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910646.964195, "message": "so i don't download the entire data set from the server every time the user launches the app", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128882}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910761.251801, "message": "so you could work in offline mode", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128901}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910798.9819019, "message": "later @thanksmister", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128906}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910868.2182021, "message": "yep, now that we're talking the same terms, I understand the approach a lot better.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128917}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910889.4838009, "message": "Personally, I'd still avoid the singletons.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128919}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911006.200037, "message": "So, what are your singletons?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128942}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911139.438225, "message": "ah.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128966}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911157.5631261, "message": "sync", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128969}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911216.132827, "message": "and people who access that facade have an instance of it injected by robotLogs?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128982}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911462.5977399, "message": "yeah i mean i'm talking about things in RobotLegs terms", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129022}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911473.2106929, "message": "model, service, commands, mediators", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129024}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910836.111443, "message": "@martypitt it's a little complicated, but basically there are services that talk to the server. those services are accessed via commands in robotlegs", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128912}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297910923.2330649, "message": "however, when you're dealing with the local database, it's too expensive to open new connections all the time", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128925}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911009.5897429, "message": "well", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128944}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911016.4565899, "message": "let me see..", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128945}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911993.1517849, "message": "Eg.,  videoRepository.getVideo(id:int):Video", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129069}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297912046.3259361, "message": "I think they're a logical place for storing groups of data.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129074}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911092.499191, "message": "public interface ILibraryServiceFacade\n\t{\n\t\tfunction select():void;\n\t\tfunction sync():void;\n\t\tfunction mediaInsertNew(items:Vector.<ICellData>):void;\n\t\tfunction mediaInsertKnown(items:Vector.<ICellData>):void;\n\t\tfunction mediaDelete(items:Vector.<ICellData>):void;\n\t\tfunction mediaUpdate(media:MediaItem):void;\n\t}", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128956}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911131.8483069, "message": "but a RL one, not one where i wrote get instance", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128964}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911153.2499771, "message": "it instantiates services when it needs to", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128967}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911156.2053349, "message": "like", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128968}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911212.2725661, "message": "var service:ISelectService = new LibrarySelectService();", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128981}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911243.2000079, "message": "public var facade:ILibraryServiceFacade;", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128987}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911273.2659681, "message": "that's handled in a command though", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128993}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911289.1473711, "message": "libraryFacade.mediaDelete(event.items);", "group_id": 4205, "id": 128996}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911641.553695, "message": "to me i just see the service as having one responsibility - loading and parsing data into a format the model wants", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129044}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911727.0537181, "message": "i use factories when multiple services are accessing similar pieces of data, so i avoid duplicating parsing code, but the rest of the time i just \"deserialize\" in the service itself", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129048}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297912090.1688371, "message": "my understanding of models has always been this way. if i'm off, i'm open to find out!", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129076}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297912596.9479461, "message": "I don't actually use a lot of repo in my current project, but here's how I'd probably do it in parsley:", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129114}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297911802.0978751, "message": "your approach makes total sense.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129054}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297912029.739186, "message": "No - I don't htink your models are glorified services.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129072}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297912068.7326269, "message": "right, but are they Models in the sense that you think of them?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129075}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297912133.3264589, "message": "right. i mean, only the model would listen to this service. why add complexity by separating them?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129079}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297912244.0919571, "message": "No - that's not how we do it", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129086}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297912759.8340521, "message": "Like thanksmister said - it's similar to what you're doing, but you don't trigger the events.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129128}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297912820.76125, "message": "In that case, the pm has the repo injected directly into it, and it calls repo.getData(searchCriteria):DataSet;", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129134}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297912837.224323, "message": "however, the dataset that is returned is loaded asyncronously.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129138}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297912891.722034, "message": "the results are paginated in, and can change over time, depending on what's going on on the server.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129151}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297912216.879869, "message": "seems way easier than a command telling the service to load, then a mediator listening for that complete event to be dispatched to the framework, and then telling the model that the service is finished and here's the data it had.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129082}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297912243.5702009, "message": "which then tells the mediator that it's done with whatever business logic it was doing and the mediator should update the view", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129085}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297912273.608659, "message": "right that's where i was confused. so explain the difference in your methodology?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129088}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297912985.513123, "message": "ok", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129162}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297912451.179621, "message": "i'm always down to learn new ways of doing things.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129098}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297912713.058075, "message": "Generally speaking:\npm dispatches an event -> loadData\ncommand responds, has the service injected, and invokes the appropriate methods on the service.  Command gets told of the response, and parses it into Domain objects as required, dispatches an event saying the load has finised - Pm handles it, and updates it's properties.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129122}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297912779.7217319, "message": "We have a slightly more complex scneario where we do use a repository.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129129}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297912993.5776689, "message": "ditto!", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129164}, {"user_id": 12638, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297912955.9710569, "message": "hey - I gotta run - but it's been good chatting.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 129159}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297969971.887779, "message": "gotcha", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134335}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297968948.537962, "message": "its nice to have it all separated out but tedious to develop", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134128}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297967670.816144, "message": "Just got caught up on all this. Had to duck out half way through last night", "group_id": 4205, "id": 133979}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297968618.9354949, "message": "I think in certain cases I store states of certain views on the model", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134087}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297968728.7736011, "message": "If its changing the global state of the app I will do it via a command but if its just the state of a particular view than I will do it directly on the model because nothing else in the app cares.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134101}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297968753.133707, "message": "I always use commands to talk to a service", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134103}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297967825.6482849, "message": "I generally try to avoid setting data on a model via a mediator. I'll in inject the model so I can reference data on it but try to always use commands to set data.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134003}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297968782.3089509, "message": "and then just switch based on the event type", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134107}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297968918.1685579, "message": "cant one command talk to both?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134124}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297968925.4848919, "message": "yeah", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134125}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297969161.467623, "message": "I see nothing wrong with it as long as you can let the other view know that you updated the data", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134170}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297969110.2000599, "message": "makes it hard to do strict data typing", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134159}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297968522.1331029, "message": "I think the only model that steve talks to directly is the one dealing with local storage, for updating the server, he sends events to commands, which talk to the service", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134076}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297968629.948581, "message": "i also do that", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134089}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297968942.091814, "message": "yes, i have one command check the file type, then transfer that to the proper service", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134127}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297968960.0109351, "message": "but again, if i followed steve's thinking, i might put the model/service for local files views in the mediators", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134129}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297969019.6099679, "message": "its even worse because I have a whole other set of events being sent each time the models update", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134142}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297969053.763422, "message": "so they are associated with who they talk to or by concerns", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134150}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297969100.8098121, "message": "but was interested in what steve said because it would bury my local data service into the mediator and kill a lot of model update events", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134158}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297969554.0135779, "message": "sort of translate any server data to my applications file formats", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134249}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297968569.294208, "message": "Right, that is typically how I do it as well.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134082}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297968636.9302521, "message": "But that app and view dependent", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134091}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297968875.4121439, "message": "I guess its really just comes down to \" do I want to make 2 more classes or just set a property?\"", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134119}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297967863.684159, "message": "unless I know that a particular mediator is the only think that will referencing/updating a variable", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134013}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297968619.341084, "message": "I wasn't clear about the models that hold the server data and how/where they were injected", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134088}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297968693.6898701, "message": "its still seems strange to act up on a service sometimes with a command, and sometimes from the model", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134097}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297968771.069788, "message": "but that is the gotcha part, you might start out with a model that nobody else cares about, but then a change in app design makes have to break that rule", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134106}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297968786.2948191, "message": "in the command", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134109}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297969036.9870169, "message": "the only thing i did is organize the events into model/service/modelupdate folders", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134148}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297969172.1299109, "message": "views*", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134171}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297968770.8113201, "message": "sometimes I will wrap a call and response in the same command though", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134105}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297968830.0876369, "message": "yeah, you always run the risk of having to change it to a command", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134113}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297969364.955848, "message": "Various VOs and such", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134206}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297969458.8930039, "message": "want to try it out on the next project", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134220}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297968648.1592031, "message": "store states on the model to change the application views from user interaction", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134092}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297968698.4792981, "message": "i like to be consistent", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134098}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297968797.7608981, "message": "yeah, someone said that is how they do that with parsley", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134111}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297968988.912401, "message": "i agree, its looks like you generate a ton of class files", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134133}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297969331.6910329, "message": "i use signals", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134198}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297969459.4612041, "message": "i make one base VO that is an interface, then extend that with other interfaces for various types, so IBaseFile is extended by ILocalFile, ILocalFolder, IFile, IFolder.  All data from service is converted to an application VO of one of those types", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134221}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297969757.18502, "message": "or some mod of RL", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134294}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297968860.250376, "message": "in my current application i have to display the local file system, and files can be dragged to folders on the server to upload, so there is one area where the concerns cross paths between local service, and the service updating the server", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134117}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297968910.7831509, "message": "there are a lot of commands/events if you don't inject your model into the mediators", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134123}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297969214.6068521, "message": "what makes it hard to do strict data typing?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134174}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297969524.3044889, "message": "i wrape up the parsed results from the service in an IFile", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134243}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297969528.8067541, "message": "and pass it back to the system", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134246}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297969559.7750421, "message": "for display in the views and such", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134251}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297969311.5733831, "message": "having generic props for events.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134193}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297969403.542628, "message": "So I can pass in a VO to send to the server and then pass back a different VO for results from the server", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134210}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297969432.848856, "message": "Although its typically not very hard to track down considering you know the event type", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134215}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297969094.247153, "message": "I try to group my events and have generic data properties. So I can use the same event over and over. Trouble is you have anonymous properties like serviceEvent.data", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134157}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297969153.9298999, "message": "well, each of my files in the application extends a base interface", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134167}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297969494.267437, "message": "then i always base IBaseFile and then check if its an IFile or ILocalFile for example in the command, then talk to the service", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134230}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297969497.7062969, "message": "yes", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134231}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297969507.094902, "message": "so if i use AWS service", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134236}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297969355.491616, "message": "So I use ServiceEvent.data to pass mulitple types of data.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134204}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297969490.7332139, "message": "So you always have to pass back a VO of some sort", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134228}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297969514.2524951, "message": "Gotcha", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134238}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297969448.2087641, "message": "I have been looking into signals", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134218}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297969608.6618321, "message": "Makes sense", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134263}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297969674.2361259, "message": "We do something similar in the \"newer\" version of our framework. The project I am on now was the RL ginny pig.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134284}, {"user_id": 12640, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297969734.922194, "message": "so what framework do you use now, RL 2.0 or something different", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134291}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297969928.6940269, "message": "RL is just the back bone, we just created some base data types and commands that we use requently", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134327}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297969954.4925649, "message": "Things like loading data, changing sections, managing swf address ect", "group_id": 4205, "id": 134330}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297972693.871356, "message": "but if you make a Service an Actor, disconnected from the Model then you are creating a chain of dependencies", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135047}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297972696.549278, "message": "not escaping them", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135048}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297972889.189883, "message": "is each Friend a Model", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135098}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973116.3543301, "message": "what do you mean?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135167}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297972662.5669, "message": "the Model operates as a black box", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135032}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297972881.910593, "message": "let's say oyu have a list of Friends", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135097}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973230.062309, "message": "the model is in charge of the business logic", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135210}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973276.7057021, "message": "but that implementation is up to you i suppos", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135226}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973258.808924, "message": "who else would know, paul? somebody has to know whether a data change necessitates a server call", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135219}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973264.2894149, "message": "no", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135221}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297972623.436358, "message": "what i'm saying is that a Model is responsible for providing data to the View", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135024}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297972728.1148319, "message": "i'm not arguing that", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135054}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297972756.851104, "message": "ok ok lets define our terms", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135064}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973066.3969121, "message": "because the Model _is_not_ concerned with loading!", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135141}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973075.4614151, "message": "it only stores", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135147}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973090.2835031, "message": "model stores, service loads", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135159}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973103.9660411, "message": "Steven, what happens if your view is the one to update that data item, not the service?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135163}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973116.8511801, "message": "What if it's an intra-app update, without needing to go to the server for anything.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135168}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973703.561393, "message": "i guess i'm not grasping how the model isn't \"in charge\" of the service", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135358}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973718.6430111, "message": "and instead it's the role of a command", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135368}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297972703.4312661, "message": "view -> call \"load\" or similar method -> model", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135049}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297972775.9942961, "message": "Start with Models", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135071}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297972844.9304371, "message": "Anytime that method is called, the model will dispatch an application-wide even \"modelChanged\"", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135087}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973052.3182349, "message": "No!", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135136}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973133.8171439, "message": "Ok, say your \"FriendVO\" has three fields", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135175}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973277.694098, "message": "of course it would", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135228}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973324.547482, "message": "and sometimes, if you're really in a hurry, who needs a command?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135244}, {"user_id": 7782, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973689.4114709, "message": "stray coming correct with the sweet sweet gfx", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135354}, {"user_id": 7782, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973710.0968339, "message": "I don't mind either Paul, it really depends on the gig though", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135365}, {"user_id": 7782, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973748.7216549, "message": "you should see what I have to deal with on the daily", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135380}, {"user_id": 7782, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973770.513113, "message": "we have close to 70 \"flex\" devs", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135387}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973863.4082201, "message": "What are you working on joel?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135412}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297972639.0296631, "message": "how that data is obtained is irrelevant to anything else in the system", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135026}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297972895.2412181, "message": "or is the list of friends a Model", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135102}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297972912.7624559, "message": "Model.data = Vector.<Friend>;", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135106}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973194.7715399, "message": "the model handles the business logic of whether or not a service call is required", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135195}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973365.444406, "message": "do you create business logic in the service to determine which changes require calls to the server and which don't?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135263}, {"user_id": 7782, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297974167.6429269, "message": "my command names are really long", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135471}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297972523.848799, "message": "yo steven dawg", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135012}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297972813.0726991, "message": "Models expose a way to update their data member. Lets just call that method \"setData(someObject)\"", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135081}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297972933.7317941, "message": "myself personally, if it has a UID, I give it it's own model actor", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135110}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973037.5263, "message": "and the Model dispatches a \"I changed my shit\" event", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135127}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973286.706691, "message": "that's the point, the service knows", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135231}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973302.6704831, "message": "yes", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135236}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973448.7830601, "message": "because I hate writing tons of commands", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135294}, {"user_id": 7782, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973486.2816839, "message": "and Commands are pretty sweet if they are small and named well", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135315}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973562.1772921, "message": "If you have Commands that 'do the same thing' - I assume you mean there's *some* overlap", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135334}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973074.4107189, "message": "well it doesn't load anything", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135146}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973309.8032801, "message": "thank you joel.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135241}, {"user_id": 7782, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973356.017004, "message": "it doesn't, that business logic would be in the controller (imo)", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135257}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973607.0511949, "message": "idk, all I know is", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135340}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973622.5020821, "message": "my mediators listen for \"thisModelChanged\" and \"thatModelChanged\" events", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135342}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973645.8067, "message": "on the shared eventDispatcher", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135346}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973690.8556471, "message": "and I don't mind injecting my services into my mediators, and my models into my services.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135355}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973847.675529, "message": "even if you are just one person, there is efficiency in always following the same pattern", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135405}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297974086.030551, "message": "true that. commands are extremely useful for setup and teardown. no argument from me there.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135459}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297974360.2681861, "message": "unless you're willing to work 100% on the command line", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135508}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973078.6093271, "message": "the service does", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135150}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297972772.088732, "message": "Here's how I code things", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135069}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973082.541378, "message": "on behalf of the Model", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135153}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297972609.672591, "message": "i hate PureMVC, always have", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135022}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297972669.8958111, "message": "you don't know how it does what it does", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135036}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297972676.1921489, "message": "and there are no other dependencies", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135039}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297972725.9049671, "message": "right", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135052}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297972872.9360161, "message": "what do you call a Model", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135093}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973130.882956, "message": "what's the issue?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135173}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973148.971755, "message": "i know you don't have to go to the server everytime", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135181}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973212.102005, "message": "i say", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135201}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297974527.7818689, "message": "I'm still not sure if it's possible to amend commits that are older than the most recent", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135540}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297974537.3855529, "message": "STEVEN SACKS I STILL LOVE YOUUU", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135542}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297972592.4686861, "message": "steven, dawg, you're still coding PureMVC from 2006 yo", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135021}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297972661.1691949, "message": "Yo of course, through the intelligent use of model change events", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135029}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297972671.521791, "message": "but it's always one way", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135037}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297972682.027669, "message": "model -> dispatches change event -> view", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135041}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297972684.806428, "message": "never", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135042}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297972726.0116179, "message": "your dependency is only on the service contract yo, not the actual implementation.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135053}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297972729.696099, "message": "and DI manages that for you yo", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135056}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297972814.209204, "message": "I start with Models, as well.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135082}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297972873.1608689, "message": "Capiche?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135094}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973174.8665161, "message": "but when you have to go to the server is up to the model", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135189}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973210.125421, "message": "i, the view or mediator, don't care how the model does what it does", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135200}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973219.6160481, "message": "model change this friend's first name", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135206}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973373.4815741, "message": "ok", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135269}, {"user_id": 7782, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297974170.425096, "message": "Obj-C style ^^", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135473}, {"user_id": 7782, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297974203.899431, "message": "on a totally unrelated note, I need to work on a convore AIR app", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135480}, {"user_id": 7782, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297974251.8141141, "message": "not as long as a test method name, long than ACommand", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135491}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973047.4992471, "message": "my point is that the only component concerned with loading data is the Model, meaning a Service only exists to serve the Model's needs.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135134}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973267.294153, "message": "that would be gross", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135222}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297972892.535774, "message": "Model extends Actor encapsulates a piece of data, sometimes a list if that's your thing", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135099}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297972919.5158379, "message": "That's immaterial, either one depending on your style", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135107}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973189.619463, "message": "no way man, that's PureMVC 2k6", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135192}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973465.2854631, "message": "I used to be stringent about it, when I used PMVC", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135303}, {"user_id": 7782, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973467.826977, "message": "but with IntelliJ I can just generate them in like 2 seconds so I have less excuses", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135305}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973571.5476999, "message": "why not break that common functionality into a helper?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135336}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973649.4305151, "message": "this is my flow http://twitpic.com/40tq9x", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135349}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973654.2289, "message": "mediator -> service (after response) -> models (\"sheChangedEvent\") -> mediators", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135350}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973745.1487269, "message": "or even with a single dev :)", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135379}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973755.6110389, "message": "I bet", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135382}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973869.778542, "message": "heheh.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135416}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297974985.5330391, "message": "I think some of it is about workflow", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135619}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297972992.4657121, "message": "So you may have a \"FriendsListModel\" which is initialized, then when the list is actually accessed, it loads the actual \"List\" from the services, instantiates individual \"FriendModel\" objects for each item in the list, blah blah blah blah", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135116}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973047.146095, "message": "ha ha ha ha", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135133}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973088.3442039, "message": "But!", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135158}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973443.1885109, "message": "I support that.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135292}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973456.0513189, "message": "no concept of DRY", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135299}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973490.943167, "message": "so much indirection that I ultimately didn't need.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135316}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973910.0068531, "message": "once I'm implementing a pattern simply to maintain \"efficiency,\" I know I'm doing a job that should be automated.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135425}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297974110.5336421, "message": "need", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135463}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297974149.6534441, "message": "you know exactly what it does", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135468}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297974200.1725481, "message": "eg... ?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135479}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297974210.15886, "message": "sure, but what does your command do? is it there just so you don't have to inject an \"ILibraryItemService\" into your mediators?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135482}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297974329.2115769, "message": "is my longest :P", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135501}, {"user_id": 7782, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297972953.0555429, "message": "or both, you can model a list and individual items", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135112}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973194.6560619, "message": "ask Jesse if you don't believe me yo!", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135194}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973202.380414, "message": "not so", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135199}, {"user_id": 7782, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973249.1222861, "message": "technically I'd say it is in charge of domain logic ^^", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135217}, {"user_id": 7782, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973297.303479, "message": "data is changed, model expresses that with an event, command reacts and makes a service call if necessary", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135234}, {"user_id": 7782, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973429.5701489, "message": "I'll cheat too, but that means you now have domain and business logic on a model", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135287}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973481.0275321, "message": "_everything_ was \"mediator -> command -> proxy -> command -> mediator\"", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135313}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973628.6896811, "message": "so it goes", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135344}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973638.5199239, "message": "my mediators too", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135345}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973776.7433889, "message": "holy crap", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135391}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973010.325778, "message": "lazy loading, whatever. still, immaterial.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135122}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973028.887593, "message": "Fundamentally, there's a setData method on each RL Model Actor thingy dude.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135125}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973073.805896, "message": "he's only concerned with _encapsulating_", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135145}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973217.7958629, "message": "how is the model supposed to know whether your update requires a service call?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135205}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973294.1579881, "message": "the service knows whether it needs to make a service call or not.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135232}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973452.531229, "message": "that all do the same thing", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135297}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973940.9251659, "message": "no - not automated", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135431}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973952.9171879, "message": "but if you don't have to think \"shall I use a command for this... \"", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135438}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973954.0655999, "message": "no u!", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135439}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973146.652122, "message": "\"firstName\" \"lastName\" and \"birthday\"", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135180}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973256.9874239, "message": "so you're going to have a \"changeFirstName\" \"changeLastName\" etc. methods on all your Models??", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135218}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973409.0754261, "message": "I agree with that joel, but that's extreme and I sometimes don't mind skipping it.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135282}, {"user_id": 7782, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973445.6337979, "message": "fuck it, why make an extra class", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135293}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973705.3998749, "message": "agree w/ joel and stray, but I still don't mind skipping the commands.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135360}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973733.014266, "message": "I guess I don't mind because I can swap shit out with DI easy and quick enough", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135373}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973733.9621539, "message": "and 'sorry - we can't make that change you want' is not an option", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135374}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973764.9882071, "message": "In PureMVC, my command played the role of \"make this mediator call that proxy service,\" which is entirely solved now with DI", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135385}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973337.459836, "message": "how does the service know it's supposed to make a call", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135248}, {"user_id": 13302, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973947.5642719, "message": "I don't have time to chat right now, but you're all wrong!!!!! :P", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135434}, {"user_id": 7782, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297974804.844887, "message": "@ptaylor http://www.zazzle.com/windows_is_for_poor_people_tshirt-235516966873816639", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135584}, {"user_id": 7782, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973435.5686941, "message": "I'll also inject a model into a service", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135289}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973453.4264441, "message": "me too", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135298}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973503.9421091, "message": "Yup - I'm in favour of small, discrete classes that you can test and close and never open again", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135320}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973708.2449391, "message": "thx @joel", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135363}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973723.28018, "message": "I should qualify - my gig is YEARS long", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135369}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973966.4847829, "message": "then that's time not spent sitting thinking in circles", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135440}, {"user_id": 7782, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973735.9235189, "message": "on a larger project with many devs you have to enforce disciplined development", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135376}, {"user_id": 7782, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973776.6454451, "message": "it is crazy", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135390}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973846.5988431, "message": "Jesus", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135404}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297975763.1236019, "message": "and easiest to change later", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135732}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297975869.8908319, "message": "Ha ha ha agreed. Bounce back and forth between FDT and FlashBuilder", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135760}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297975898.3422041, "message": "Prefer testing in FB but coding seems to be way faster in FDT", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135768}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297976637.981041, "message": "testing in FB?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135861}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297975258.781409, "message": "Sounds like the same amount of work", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135658}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297975705.290436, "message": "If you think 'writing' a class is work, you seriously need a better IDE ;P", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135718}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297975736.24403, "message": "I did an analysis - based on my typing speed, I spend over 95% of my time NOT writing code", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135725}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297975759.575012, "message": "so - one class, two classes... I do whatever is easiest to *think* about", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135730}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297974116.0608039, "message": "if you have commands like", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135464}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297974273.2381239, "message": "PrepareMenuDataFromContentVOCommand.as", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135495}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297973985.274045, "message": "I have processes that are automated too - I use sprouts", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135444}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297974012.9153819, "message": "when we add a new admin data type, one command produces the whole module set up, the data loading, the events etc etc", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135447}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297974051.8535261, "message": "my command there was always just a facet of indirection to calm my decoupled mind, it doesn't make my job actually easier. sometimes, but true \"100% encapsulated\" commands are rarer for me.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135452}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297974103.5241289, "message": "but they're also useful when you nee to make a change", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135461}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297974144.430697, "message": "DownloadLibraryItemCommand.as", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135466}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297974209.0455999, "message": "How long is *really* long?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135481}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297974241.050827, "message": "Joel, I'm considering writing a usable Windows git client in WPF :)", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135489}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297974272.215591, "message": "I have", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135494}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297974282.884913, "message": "I think that's about as long as mine get", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135498}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297974348.7593999, "message": "@ptaylor thank god for that. windows gitting is a PITA", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135506}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297974321.6150329, "message": "oh wait...", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135499}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297974322.5854981, "message": "CaptureCheckpointChangeFromNavBarCommand", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135500}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297974588.5907719, "message": "And if you're not allowed to \"simply\" amend commits that are older than the most recent, I want to come up with the right sequence of commands that will do it, and hide the fact that I have to do a bunch of work in the background to get it done.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135554}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297975009.0492179, "message": "so it's good to be able to get a class 'done' in a short space of time", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135625}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297974500.1154411, "message": "@stevensacks I am, but sometimes I want a simple interface to do my favorite things easier...", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135533}, {"user_id": 1877, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297974505.248807, "message": "like amend commits.", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135535}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297974519.840765, "message": "you should make amends alright", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135538}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297974979.3950689, "message": "Going back to the Commands thing...", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135617}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297975106.705014, "message": "yeah", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135636}, {"user_id": 7782, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297974805.073036, "message": "ya, that is about right", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135585}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297974994.065774, "message": "I get interrupted a lot", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135621}, {"user_id": 12639, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297975245.6943591, "message": "Yeah but it it really worth it when you have to write 3 classes to get one task done?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135653}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297976652.3855021, "message": "what's the difference?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135864}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297975119.353868, "message": "i'm sorry your work environment is such that you can't focus", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135638}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297975134.2806201, "message": "that sucks", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135641}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297976501.239531, "message": "yes - small classes with very well defined responsibilities are easier to test", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135837}, {"user_id": 11113, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297975730.311985, "message": "like FDT", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135724}, {"user_id": 13308, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297975900.828753, "message": "and easiest to test", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135769}, {"user_id": 11098, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297976517.930819, "message": "especially to stress test - fewer variations of path through the class = easier to get full coverage", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135843}, {"user_id": 13308, "stars": [], "topic_id": 6691, "date_created": 1297977114.990644, "message": "Is FlexUnit integration better in FB than in FDT?", "group_id": 4205, "id": 135993}]