convore.json/groups/symphony-wg/data-formats/messages.json

[{"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303386424.2145131, "message": "1) Background - 5 mins", "group_id": 8448, "id": 768772}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303386576.896801, "message": "3) Goals - 15 mins", "group_id": 8448, "id": 768801}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303386701.309376, "message": "5) Next Steps - 15 mins", "group_id": 8448, "id": 768829}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303386394.4201231, "message": "Here's our agenda:", "group_id": 8448, "id": 768768}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388846.274127, "message": "by default", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769359}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303386384.060302, "message": "The goal of this discussion is to develop a proposal for data formats in Symphony 3", "group_id": 8448, "id": 768766}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303386472.813477, "message": "2) Scope - 10 mins", "group_id": 8448, "id": 768779}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303386691.9946821, "message": "4) Use Cases - 15 mins", "group_id": 8448, "id": 768827}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303387050.6383879, "message": "tired, stressed... so, pretty good, thanks. you?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 768882}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303387655.9286621, "message": "np", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769056}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303387689.806731, "message": "So part of the discussion we need to have is about what data formats we want to be supporting and how", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769064}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388022.294709, "message": "1. Whatever we do here is going to impact the discussion around the XSLT engine later on \u2014 if we're about to discuss what I think is coming up (JSON & JSONP) then it's going to have a big impact", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769142}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303387368.4357989, "message": "Welcome all, thanks for dropping in", "group_id": 8448, "id": 768987}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303387016.3129671, "message": "heh", "group_id": 8448, "id": 768875}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303387416.52215, "message": "First things first, let's take a couple of minutes to hash out why we're here", "group_id": 8448, "id": 768997}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303387528.2952869, "message": "I believe part of the motivation is that Symphony presently has a heavy XML dependency, and as the web begins to shift away from XML (at least to some degree), we need to be thinking about how we adapt", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769029}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303387804.43063, "message": "Allen's about 30 minutes away from home, so I'd like us to focus on the first of those two questions for now", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769093}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303387859.2314379, "message": "Not really \u2014 they both seem like fairly broad topics", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769107}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388299.3193891, "message": "I might be thinking in circles a little bit", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769220}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303387958.622689, "message": "and I think we want to talk about what parts of the system this needs to touch", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769130}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388958.444828, "message": "(OT: I stumbled upon a JS templating system this morning called \"Dust\", those bastards)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769396}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388977.7003059, "message": "Lol", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769402}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388688.9556839, "message": "but XML to JSON is not easy at all", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769314}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303386831.435797, "message": "I've got the dip and crackers, who brought the wine?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 768856}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303387990.2441919, "message": "great", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769135}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388064.6203489, "message": "Because from where I'm sitting, it still looks like the same mix of XML and JSON", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769154}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389085.8687739, "message": "and as far as input, that's a pretty easy thing to do with DS types", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769436}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389304.3073771, "message": "#2 Straight XML output", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769502}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303386856.615243, "message": "Apparently Convore boots you out when you OT :P", "group_id": 8448, "id": 768857}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303387021.0263169, "message": "Hey Tony", "group_id": 8448, "id": 768876}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303387233.7492371, "message": "Trying to see if Allen's around", "group_id": 8448, "id": 768942}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303387349.2627261, "message": "Great, I guess we'll get started", "group_id": 8448, "id": 768982}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303387669.7318311, "message": "anyway...", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769060}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303387769.94048, "message": "Another part of the discussion that I think Allen wants to have is about the actual data structures we'll use... for instance how we'll structure the XML output by the system, etc", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769085}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303387895.510849, "message": "In terms of scope for #1 \u2014 are we talking Symph 3, or beyond?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769113}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388262.539871, "message": "Cross-posted you there", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769212}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303387031.3358071, "message": "How are you, Craig?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 768877}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303387099.702136, "message": "About the same :) I screwed up a quote a few weeks back, and didn't realise until I was halfway through the job. So yeah \u2014 tired, stressed \u2014 but life it good, I can't complain :)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 768894}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303387270.1914401, "message": "It's Allen!", "group_id": 8448, "id": 768954}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303387648.694412, "message": "(sorry one sec)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769052}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303387260.4346349, "message": "Hi", "group_id": 8448, "id": 768949}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303387279.555819, "message": "Hooray, and Rowan", "group_id": 8448, "id": 768959}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303387906.0818069, "message": "I think we're focusing on S3 for now", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769118}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303387917.1599419, "message": "Doesn't hurt to raise questions for further discussion", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769120}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303387933.0605831, "message": "but our proposal will cover only S3 I think", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769124}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303387977.817838, "message": "I have a couple of thoughts around this:", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769133}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388095.092025, "message": "Don't believe so, not that I know of", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769162}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388244.0294349, "message": "Right. So I think it would behoove us to come off as JSON-friendly in the same way that we are XML-friendly. What would that mean?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769207}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303387664.179244, "message": "Sorry, Allen just called, he lost connectivity", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769059}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388256.889174, "message": "sorry", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769210}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388281.5623901, "message": "Can you explain a little more what you mean by that?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769215}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388489.9429369, "message": "OK \u2014 reset. So the motivator for this topic really comes back to what we were talking about the other week, right Craig? The fact that XSLT is essentially on life support if you're not a Java platform \u2014 and if we're going to think about throwing XSLT out, we should think about what our underlying data output format is as well. Am I right?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769262}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388638.434361, "message": "Dynamic JSON datasources would be simple to write", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769297}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388653.4878089, "message": "@buzzomatic PHP has support for JSON output natively now, right?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769303}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388834.108577, "message": "S3 will have to be XSLT.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769353}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388846.882108, "message": "Agreed.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769360}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388109.476449, "message": "Yeah", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769166}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388340.5851841, "message": "I was aiming at letting people say \"I want symphony to take the data model I've created, and the data source I've defined and output it directly in CSV, or SuperNewNotInventedFileFormat\"", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769232}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388768.2242401, "message": "so building one is different than building the other", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769336}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389603.5655839, "message": "Are we ranging too far from what's realistic for S3 with a full data output rejig like this?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769549}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389687.71736, "message": "right", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769564}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303387813.7836671, "message": "Sure", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769095}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303387815.0268099, "message": "Anybody have anything to add?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769096}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303387867.876615, "message": "Maybe just dive in?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769109}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388587.0798221, "message": "I think it's a little too early to think about an alternative to xslt for s3", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769285}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388645.0013771, "message": "Right", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769298}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388873.922719, "message": "Which I'm pretty sure there's not \u2014 as nice as Dusty looks on paper ;)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769368}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388884.038348, "message": "it's not inconceivable, however, to have the system be a little more abstracted, a little more extensible, so that an extension could allow views to output JSON and template it some other way", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769371}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388729.051373, "message": "So... what we've got now is a system that builds XML little by little as it processes each request, and then at the end it takes that and runs an XSLT transformation", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769326}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389423.3117771, "message": "ok, so we're talking about a full-on data output API that extensions could tap into to provide these alternative output modes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769519}, {"user_id": 22710, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303387801.645916, "message": "(hi guys. going to lurk a bit...)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769091}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303387942.1721859, "message": "Good to know", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769126}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388603.0231559, "message": "Partly so. To be honest, I'm not entirely sure what folks had in mind when they raised \"support for other data formats\" in the visioning exercise. But my take on it is influenced by that realization, that at the moment XSLT appears to not have a very strong future on the web", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769288}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388720.734082, "message": "What happens to attributes?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769323}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388757.7999859, "message": "the problem is that XML and JSON don't map one-to-one", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769334}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388821.24231, "message": "I think we need to have a decision on XSLT or something else. This will inform us on how to approach this.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769348}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388040.373945, "message": "2. Has anyone done any research around upcoming web data formats", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769147}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389208.5655291, "message": "LOL \u2014 bye Allen in preparation :P", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769466}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389583.9237311, "message": "we're talking about building in more under-the-hood flexibility", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769546}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388125.5912471, "message": "I did a quick whip around tonight, and nothing is really sticking out at me aside from JSON as \"up and coming\" \u2014 and JSON's already here", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769170}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388903.575978, "message": "I think we need to approach the core in a way that accommodates an alternative template layer should that happen in the future", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769379}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388472.1311531, "message": "Is it worth thinking about allowing an extensible output switch on the view?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769260}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388667.1368239, "message": "json_encode/json_decode", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769311}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388701.8885601, "message": "What about XML -> PHP Obj -> JSON?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769318}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388707.129817, "message": "I've not had to do that before", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769319}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388981.7919459, "message": "OT: http://akdubya.github.com/dustjs/", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769403}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389017.1478889, "message": "Okay so we have a direction and a view on how to scope the data format in s3", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769418}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389018.321229, "message": "Given the way node.js is spreading, JS on the server might not be out of the question for future releases, or as an experiment", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769420}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389056.198946, "message": "Agreed", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769429}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388565.554502, "message": "@czheng yes, I think so \u2014 but in a way that's extensible for future data formats", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769280}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388661.478224, "message": "Yep", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769305}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388823.7385941, "message": "Extension might be the wrong word there", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769349}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388850.5305271, "message": "Yeah, I wouldn't mess with that for S3 \u2014 unless there's a good, viable alternative we can use now", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769362}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388989.0186751, "message": "yeah", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769405}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389096.2678859, "message": "Tram delaye", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769440}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389132.440377, "message": "Whats", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769449}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389275.524287, "message": "ok go", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769497}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389297.212532, "message": "#1 Traditional symphony: XML for passing to XSLT processor", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769500}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389299.1929791, "message": "Wrt output, the dissonance between related sections can be better handled", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769501}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389403.5396819, "message": "I hadn't considered that at all", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769518}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389567.53581, "message": "also, to be clear, despite all these shifts the idea is that for the most part S3 would behave very much like S2 by default, in terms of output and templating", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769540}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389659.210839, "message": "it's certainly very ambitious", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769561}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388234.0501771, "message": "It would be nice to abstract the data model from the data output/presentation in a way that symphony developers (not WG/core team developers) could have some more control over", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769203}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388617.3575029, "message": "@allen I agree \u2014 but I'm trying to understand the motivation behind any change we might make here", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769295}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388790.331624, "message": "So if we're thinking about future proofing here, it's worth thinking about re-building a data output API?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769340}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388817.9863241, "message": "Reworking the way data is output to be less dependent on XML structures and basically hand off the encoding to a data extension class", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769346}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388906.659663, "message": "Provide alternative output formats, yeah", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769380}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388912.7318771, "message": "What Craig said", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769381}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388916.929409, "message": ":D", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769382}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388381.2006271, "message": "Rather than pushing it via a templating engine \u2014 but that'll negate a lot of the niceties of what we have", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769243}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388637.720248, "message": "@czheng I think if you whittle it down, it will be JSON support", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769296}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388650.442517, "message": "Output on the other hand not really", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769300}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303388739.9704771, "message": "They get transformed into \"full\" JSON nodes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769330}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389270.5307319, "message": "Sure, so I can think of three primary use cases straight up:", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769494}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389272.562809, "message": "dynamic ds types can handle parsing whatever format", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769495}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389376.4047451, "message": "#4 file export (PDF, xls, etc.)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769514}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389123.81128, "message": "Ok", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769447}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303390263.926491, "message": "but if it's something else, they're... rerouted", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769672}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303390284.686801, "message": "(forgive my ignorance)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769679}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303390495.869864, "message": "yeah that's fine. recommendations, after all, are just that.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769730}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303390216.1655591, "message": "what if the switch happens before instantiation?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769668}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389097.5736959, "message": "I think we should probably provide XML and JSON as data output formats (at a minimum) for S3", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769441}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389216.8591969, "message": "Ta :p", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769472}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389322.3722789, "message": "#3 JSON output for use in more dynamic apps", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769505}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389146.5582931, "message": "Next, Craig?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769452}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389190.271203, "message": "Heads up, 2% battery..", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769461}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389212.4395399, "message": "to some extent, I think actually these are fairly straightforward", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769469}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389516.9480929, "message": "one implication of that would be that View Templates have to be decoupled from Views", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769531}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303390254.3353989, "message": "like... if the mode is XML, then all the method calls will result in DOMElements", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769671}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303390386.6614261, "message": "well, I think we're supposed to be making proposals for S3. on the one hand, I'd like to see them be forward-thinking. on the other, if we can't actually build them, it doesn't matter :P", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769708}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389046.340384, "message": "Yeah, so that's going into our proposal... approaching the core in a way that leaves open the possibility of other templating layers", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769427}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389511.7223339, "message": "Sounds like", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769530}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389107.641273, "message": "that's fair. and ditto input", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769443}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389165.8913519, "message": "(iPhone keyboard being challenging)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769457}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389252.39815, "message": "i think the input side of the equation is fairly simple", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769484}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389394.0603139, "message": "@allen good point", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769516}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389620.935544, "message": "I think so", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769552}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389998.83477, "message": "Very expensive, despite what you might think, libxml is quite efficient at handling documents.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769623}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303390064.094492, "message": "It doesn't matter, unlikely that much of the existing code will get used", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769636}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303390151.222944, "message": "Well if that's the case, in an ideal world I'd think Craig's suggestion is what we should aim for \u2014 you're concerned there will be performance implications, @buzzomatic?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769654}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303390162.5498209, "message": "(obviously, derp)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769656}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303390553.056344, "message": "ok, so it's nearly been an hour. I think we have a good sense of what we'd like to see happen in an ideal world, so let's just talk about next steps", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769743}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303390633.983305, "message": "Agreed. @buzzomatic \"heavy procrastination\" as in someone spending a ton of time on it?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769754}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389205.5125909, "message": "Seems like we've covered Goals, next step would be Use Cases", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769464}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389237.3592739, "message": "however, might be worth thinking through a little bit in case it raises issues we haven't discussed", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769476}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389340.9099741, "message": "I haven't seen the ones from the earlier convos", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769509}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303390338.0066171, "message": "@czheng not at all, I'm feeling as lost as you are here \u2014 are we supposed to be aiming for ideal world proposals for further discussion here?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769689}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389331.6823621, "message": "Do we want more detailed use cases than that?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769508}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389679.9336691, "message": "Forget that any code exists", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769562}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389731.6649871, "message": "I have no idea how it could be done", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769574}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389943.8602231, "message": "or is that too messy/difficult/costly?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769614}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303390277.3213129, "message": "or does that not make any difference?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769677}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303390346.216083, "message": "Or discussing the technical specifics", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769695}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303390417.55441, "message": "But yeahj", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769713}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303390575.056469, "message": "is there anything else that needs to happen before we *recommend* this course?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769745}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303390612.7108901, "message": "I don't think so \u2014 I'd suggest we put a heavy caveat that this is a nice to have \u2014 not an essential for S3", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769752}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303390839.011132, "message": "Right. Great, then thanks for taking the time everyone.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769778}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303390862.7716529, "message": "No worries :)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769780}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303390869.1659949, "message": "I'll post the proposal to Github in a few days", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769781}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389530.670541, "message": "or decoupled from XSLT", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769534}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389543.647738, "message": "No drop ins", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769536}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389637.3493209, "message": "I don't know enough about the code to be able to comment on the feasibility of this \u2014 Rowan, got any thoughts?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769555}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389968.499563, "message": "That sounds like a sound end-game", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769619}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303390028.4025941, "message": "So right now, Symphony is completely tied to XML for data output \u2014 how deep does the integration go?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769633}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303389884.3509741, "message": "instead of building XML for output, can we assemble PHP objects and provide an API for accessing those? and then the default 'mode' would turn them into XML?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769605}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303390410.8830149, "message": "I'd think it best to leave the specifics to whoever implements and just provide high-level goals with some thinking around implications and considerations like performance, memory reqs, APIs, etc", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769712}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303390422.551023, "message": "That's what I'm worried about", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769715}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303390675.0685201, "message": "Guess so", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769761}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303390537.189009, "message": "Only heavy procrastination will solve it", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769738}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303391953.1131389, "message": "back", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769922}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303391966.8150401, "message": "ah, it's done", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769924}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303390588.9593761, "message": "implementation is another matter, of course...", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769748}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303390721.7299349, "message": "fair enough... ok, so this will be put together in a brief proposal as a nice to have if anyone can figure out how it could be done", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769769}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303390782.1671569, "message": "anyone have anything to add?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769774}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 20685, "date_created": 1303390816.570698, "message": "Not really \u2014 this one's a bit of a cut and dry topic", "group_id": 8448, "id": 769776}]