convore.json/groups/symphony-wg/parameters/messages.json

[{"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624190.0293169, "message": "yup", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349628}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621595.5800769, "message": "right", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348860}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621602.7987249, "message": "yes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348865}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307620854.923789, "message": "Rowan is coming", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348704}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307620606.3946681, "message": "The purpose of this discussion is to develop a proposal for how parameters should work", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348664}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307620651.80883, "message": "4) Use Cases - 10 mins", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348670}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621496.7327991, "message": "so... any thoughts on how params work currently?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348829}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621507.1639719, "message": "I don't have a list myself", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348832}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307620635.2830369, "message": "2) Scope - 10 mins", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348667}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621307.9744639, "message": "hey", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348797}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621502.8999219, "message": "I hate strings", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348830}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621655.330276, "message": "Hello", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348870}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621671.170222, "message": "ok so currently we've got, what, three types of params?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348873}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621696.1803269, "message": "ah there's Nick", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348881}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622215.9218919, "message": "because that's what people are used to from XSLT", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349005}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307620860.7689669, "message": "trying to get Nick too", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348706}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621130.3672149, "message": "lol", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348767}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621236.555218, "message": "believe so", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348783}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621237.034837, "message": "Yeah", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348784}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621277.67766, "message": "Not quite :)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348792}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621761.6817651, "message": "I do like the idea of one generic parameter bus", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348891}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621784.649333, "message": "The implementation I've been playing with as ->get() and ->post() functions", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348894}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621827.6961169, "message": "ok", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348906}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622208.200891, "message": "I'd disallow editing params at any point", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349004}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307620643.2867081, "message": "3) Goals - 15 mins", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348669}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622305.30832, "message": "really?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349036}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622424.132236, "message": "$document->{'/data/parameters'}->appendChild($param);", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349069}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307620861.767324, "message": "ok", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348707}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621109.095463, "message": "Sweet. I think that's all we'd ever need from Crane. I think we can release it tomorrow!", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348763}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621304.5686181, "message": "Hey @phoque", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348796}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621976.4887221, "message": "@nick, why is it broken?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348937}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622095.545598, "message": "Sure", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348971}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622195.635534, "message": "xslt or xml", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349000}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622235.4015191, "message": "nick, then what about url parameters?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349013}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307620820.4692111, "message": "Should we postpone or keep going if it's just us two tonight?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348694}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621003.7630119, "message": "It extends this class: https://github.com/crane/nest/blob/master/libs/collections/values.php", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348745}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621775.191714, "message": "It'd be cool if events could post there too", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348893}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621859.3388519, "message": "They are input", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348911}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307620996.653538, "message": "https://github.com/crane/nest/blob/master/libs/collections/parameters.php", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348742}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621125.7356589, "message": ":P", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348766}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621265.841001, "message": "Okay, so I guess it'll be us Aussies and a Yank.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348787}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621362.384783, "message": "Yeah", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348814}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621552.3817871, "message": "that prefix thing always felt very dirty", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348841}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621880.7412529, "message": "Or they are \"constants\"", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348916}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622042.9174931, "message": "Hey brendo", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348953}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622043.8651099, "message": "You could banish \"output params\" and allow DSs to filter using XPath instead", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348955}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623391.8860929, "message": "what is that craig?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349383}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623473.583317, "message": "Yeah, good thinking", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349416}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622407.266798, "message": "I have had this same problem with the EN", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349064}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307620930.884625, "message": "Nice", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348723}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307620989.469274, "message": "Interesting", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348740}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621086.0182681, "message": "https://github.com/crane/nest/blob/master/instances/index-example.php", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348760}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621507.114784, "message": ":-P", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348831}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621558.213505, "message": "and insecure", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348845}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622252.285722, "message": "they'll be a part of the XML", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349020}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621880.9866719, "message": "things that may be put into any component at any time", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348917}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621932.5256481, "message": ":P", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348928}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621960.4017191, "message": "Yeah", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348933}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622280.2143929, "message": "but I dislike the idea of DSes editing the XML depending on what's already in there", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349029}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622533.122803, "message": "- modify the $param_pool with custom code", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349104}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622096.699995, "message": "ok", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348972}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307620624.4255681, "message": "As usual, our agenda will be:", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348665}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307620629.151516, "message": "1) Background - 5 mins", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348666}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307620657.5538759, "message": "5) Proposals - 20 mins", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348671}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307620908.8830409, "message": "Craig and I got a lot of code done in the past three hours", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348711}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307620970.904665, "message": "I stole the parameters implementation from Affliction", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348731}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622057.9429131, "message": "(ignoring the complexities of dependencies for now, they can be solved)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348961}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622082.4349339, "message": "that would be awesome but...", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348968}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622090.3411331, "message": "I want to first discuss the scope of parameters", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348969}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622112.6433361, "message": "go ahead Allen", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348977}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623582.6819811, "message": "S3 allows multiple filtering over the same field", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349451}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623633.8242409, "message": "You don't need between", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349466}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621231.3797679, "message": "Brendan has soccer tonight, right but he's joining us later tonight?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348781}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621850.154387, "message": "right.... so we've got params coming from several places... but they're all the same type of thing, yes?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348908}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621877.8108981, "message": "yes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348914}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621908.3775771, "message": "yeah", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348922}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621913.25753, "message": "parameters", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348924}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622036.3296001, "message": "hallo", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348950}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307620982.9063351, "message": "It's an iterator, plus XML generator", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348738}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621262.145664, "message": "It feels good to have some actual code running", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348786}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621580.737138, "message": "In S2 the difference between parameters and Datasource parameter poll is confusing", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348854}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621673.5533891, "message": "Banish them to hell as a proprietary concept that are confusing", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348875}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621681.1338251, "message": "@buzzomatic agreed. The space in which parameters exist is a little messy in terms of Parameter in XML and the concept of param pools", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348877}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621798.6052899, "message": "Let's stickto the agenda, background first", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348900}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622028.4355309, "message": "hey all", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348948}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622203.6425259, "message": "?*", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349003}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622454.233772, "message": "yeah, the concept was really hard to understand", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349075}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622515.4922769, "message": "exactly", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349099}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622676.5284159, "message": "czheng, it really must", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349155}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621064.478817, "message": "neat", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348756}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621165.3467419, "message": "The implementation is very clean", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348777}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621432.0095091, "message": "@czheng do we have an exist list of issues wrt parameters or should we just start throwing stuff here?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348821}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621580.6948891, "message": "the prefix thing?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348853}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622047.9483521, "message": "yeah", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348957}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622489.2615271, "message": "yes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349089}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623331.5363469, "message": "right", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349360}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623380.0562041, "message": "or {color: 'blue'}", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349379}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623768.4305999, "message": "i don't remember that", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349490}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621073.799937, "message": "We've got an experimental crane instance running that just outputs 'hello world'", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348757}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621160.9844899, "message": "Nick's not responding, which is a bummer because I know he's got lots of thoughts on this...", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348776}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621325.8946791, "message": "So let's talk background.... Params in Symphony 2. What works, what doesn't...", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348802}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621336.077307, "message": "@allen Also added event delegation, a little different from S2/3, extension are no longer the only pieces of code that can listen for delegates", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348804}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621353.9398589, "message": "I saw, very nice", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348811}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621511.616616, "message": "Nick did I think", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348833}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622395.7521369, "message": "it'll get really really hard to grasp if you expand that to the whole XML", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349059}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621587.5708151, "message": "It should be the same thing", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348856}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621592.042973, "message": "\"regex:{$param}\"", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348858}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621599.7744319, "message": "wrt filtering", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348861}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621792.164731, "message": "The original design was that there is a parameter pool in which everything could access it, the XSLT, DS, events, etc.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348897}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621792.379097, "message": "It would be conceivable to combine these into one", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348898}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621866.617105, "message": "well", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348912}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621955.413383, "message": "the nature of \"parameter\" for XSLT would be different to that of an \"event\". I think it's important to define the scope of parameters and their characteristics", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348931}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622076.990953, "message": "can we rewind a little bit?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348966}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622094.1321039, "message": "ok", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348970}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622156.7882509, "message": "currently?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348991}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622180.629107, "message": "At any time after Crane exists, and as soon as XSLT is being rendered", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348997}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622441.877388, "message": "Oh.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349073}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622496.0179391, "message": "I guess there'd need to be a two-step process: first add any \"environment\" type things, like Members adds the \"member-id\"", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349094}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622524.3988299, "message": "Presently a DS can add parameters in two ways:", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349101}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622643.5876889, "message": "It doesn't care about the name of the DS", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349142}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622644.978858, "message": "DS1 would have a filter on System ID as \"/data/ds2/entry/@id\"", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349145}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622658.517777, "message": "another thing to bear in mind is that it's still under discussion whether the system will dictate XML/XSLT everywhere", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349150}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623523.8064189, "message": "in S2?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349430}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623795.1874659, "message": "Number: [$param > 10 and $param < 20]", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349496}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621601.1956639, "message": "and \"before:{date}\"", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348863}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621661.3693571, "message": "I wanted to kill parameters completely", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348872}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622258.095783, "message": "Yeah", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349023}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622301.3049991, "message": "@phoque: this is already what is happening", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349034}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622486.9009471, "message": "Yeah", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349088}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622544.1329391, "message": "but. nick, there was another problem with using xpath", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349109}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622959.6334431, "message": "what would be the benefits of this?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349249}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623006.6896091, "message": "(that was my take anyway)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349264}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623228.991647, "message": "lol", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349331}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623268.500109, "message": "so let me ask this.... is XPath in itself enough to handle all filtering tasks?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349337}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623294.006556, "message": "Well at present we have mucky proprietary syntaxes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349344}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623413.0964069, "message": "Oh", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349392}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623527.2793679, "message": "Yep", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349431}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624088.962476, "message": "?debug the page", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349591}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621607.4863379, "message": "Yeah, that won't happen anymore", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348866}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621690.1509421, "message": "We have:", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348879}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621724.9906521, "message": "And also xsl:param within stylesheets", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348886}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622020.2051599, "message": "Because a data source outputs, generally, as XML. If you want an output parameter you have to choose which field to output. Which is broken, because you're already choosing to putput that in the XML", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348946}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622614.19398, "message": "and knows it will depend on both ds1 and ds2", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349130}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622824.607667, "message": "Nick, it's either that or the entire system changes from XPath itself, making extensions incompatible", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349201}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622875.269999, "message": "I know I haven't read everything yet", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349219}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623136.7169421, "message": "@phoque there was a Data Formats chat a month ago ;-) https://convore.com/symphony-wg/data-formats/", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349307}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621718.5123551, "message": "Plus XSLT input params, which are now removed anyway, imnstead they're in XML", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348884}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621744.99946, "message": "But they are somewhat less confusing", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348887}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621789.654479, "message": "the biggest issue was that there were so many places to edit them", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348895}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621792.7953639, "message": "Let's not go there just yet", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348899}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622317.318058, "message": "I mean, yeah... with params", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349040}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622624.9054389, "message": "Yes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349132}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622630.3818319, "message": "Yeah, DOMXPath", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349137}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622912.489795, "message": "Ok, break?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349239}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622918.506321, "message": "Craig*", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349243}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623186.6432159, "message": "Shall we park this tangent for now and focus on params?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349319}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623221.61904, "message": "And when we say \"XPath filrering in a DS\" it really means \"a filteting syntax appropriate to the templating language used, which uses the output of a DS rather than params\" :-P", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349330}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623282.4929371, "message": "earlier than {blah/today}?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349341}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623396.1875401, "message": "Mmeta Keys", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349385}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623436.6430271, "message": "Why try and stuff all of this into a single text field?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349404}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623479.14115, "message": "I've realised that I don't personally know all of the possible prefixes and syntaxes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349417}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621692.1652811, "message": "page params, url params (GET), ds output params", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348880}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621790.1645479, "message": "Hi Guys", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348896}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621801.652842, "message": "No implementation", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348901}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621887.0189309, "message": "not just \"input from the frontend\"", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348919}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621911.3088591, "message": "I think the term parameters describes exactly what they are..;)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348923}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307621953.7579539, "message": "The thing in my head is that DS Output Params are the \"broken\" concept", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348930}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622026.2196391, "message": "Why output it twice to two different places", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348947}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622039.205821, "message": "Hey @brend0", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348952}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622166.9325981, "message": "No, for v3", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348993}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622250.70626, "message": "just add that to the xml?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349019}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622258.998637, "message": "Ok, they are \"params\" but exist in the XML like any other environment param", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349024}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622333.9874339, "message": "I don't understand", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349045}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622371.031328, "message": "Setting parameters is a little more tricky", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349052}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622377.155169, "message": "yes, but the parameters pool currently also has the problem of \"who comes first\"", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349054}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622400.029938, "message": "$param = $document->createElement('some-param', 'value');", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349061}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622433.2123251, "message": "Huib could you elaborate?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349072}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623879.3236959, "message": "so internally it'd use XPath, but the UI would hide that to the user?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349535}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623899.476094, "message": "brend0, I don't quite get it, why can't they just ?debug", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349539}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623990.4962289, "message": ":-)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349564}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624089.6752391, "message": "see what the structure is", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349592}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624093.7014511, "message": "no thanks", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349598}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622014.80127, "message": "Huib, only one parameter per DS, when a DS outputs a whole lot more that would be useful.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348944}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622050.097537, "message": "Yeah", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348958}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622059.2319379, "message": "I have done this for the ETM and the recipients", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348962}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622132.297843, "message": "Where does parameters come in, what components are able to register a param and at what stage does a parameter can no longer be modified?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1348984}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622284.5218911, "message": "there is one thing, though, it would be bad if you had to parse xml to get the value of a param", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349031}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622547.5840499, "message": "what if you did something like this:", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349112}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622562.6946249, "message": "DSes with no dependencies run first, followed by DSes with deps as those deps are filled", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349119}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622692.302016, "message": "and it really is a breeze compared to XMLElement", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349162}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622790.9698031, "message": "If that DS output can be anything...", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349192}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622903.690006, "message": "I have no idea what you are talking about now, can you please explain?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349232}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623091.1607921, "message": "I want to build something that uses XPath to the full of its potential, not something that can do anything", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349298}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623105.070209, "message": "http://twigkit.github.com/tempo/ etc", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349299}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623189.977129, "message": "let's move on. it's not something we need to talk about now", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349320}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623306.0401151, "message": "regpex: etc, lots of prefixes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349348}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623327.9717579, "message": "just like they are now", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349357}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623400.623862, "message": "no, sorry", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349386}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623450.2010591, "message": "k", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349407}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623711.4800501, "message": "not the point imo", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349473}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623801.3973811, "message": "The first three provide a single textbox. The last \"Between\" provides two text boxes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349505}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623809.7840099, "message": "we have built filters for fields in the current section", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349513}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623810.6130979, "message": "what if you could select fields from another section in the exact same way?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349515}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622988.8651209, "message": "Oh, ok", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349257}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623318.5959239, "message": "Which I think S3 solved by enumerating them", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349354}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623466.9056599, "message": "so really what you're isolating in input fields are selector expressions", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349414}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623745.6654899, "message": "Yeah", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349481}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623747.6175799, "message": "XPath is an option in S3, right? i.e. number field has the option for \"Equals\", \"Greater than\", \"Regex\" and \"XPath\"", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349483}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623766.1477311, "message": "Does it? :P", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349488}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623773.5120599, "message": "That was the intention anyway", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349491}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623773.988487, "message": "can Xpath handle static values as well?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349492}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623789.4119959, "message": "'static'", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349494}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622227.1585901, "message": "I'd advocate no params at all", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349009}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622284.0022919, "message": "environment variable*", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349030}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622260.7242019, "message": "ok, I can live with that", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349025}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622277.187232, "message": "Cool, this is exactly the stuff we should talk about", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349028}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622320.285538, "message": "but not with the XML itself", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349041}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622337.17995, "message": "well, the dependencies are still basically the same", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349046}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622345.456023, "message": "Huib, $document->{'string(/data/parameters/some-param)'}", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349047}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622358.270762, "message": "ok, I can live with that", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349050}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622415.1821721, "message": "at first we wanted to ouput the recipients to the xml, too", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349067}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622421.63624, "message": "and then XSLT strictly disallows that thinking again", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349068}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622431.0801899, "message": "and then add that recipient back to the param pool to allow filtering", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349071}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622460.1703861, "message": "so we moved away from it", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349077}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622475.265686, "message": "Things filtering on that XML would be dependent upon it. So those DSs wouldn't execute until yours had", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349083}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622506.8972521, "message": "The second step is to sort out DS execution order", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349096}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622545.1316431, "message": "- add items to the $param_pool automatically as output params", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349110}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622576.5670869, "message": "/data/ds1/entry[@id = /data/ds2/entry/@id]", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349122}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622602.0483601, "message": "this would mean crane would need an xpath parser that actually understands xpath", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349124}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622916.873426, "message": "Craug?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349241}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622624.978493, "message": "Uhm", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349134}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622685.1325569, "message": "craig, I have been developing my last few extensions using xpath and xml", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349160}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622716.4476731, "message": "If you want an agnostic system, so that it could use JSON or other, I think you'd need an agnostic filtering mechanism", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349169}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622752.068212, "message": "not exactly, anyway", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349178}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622836.3424611, "message": "Yeah", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349206}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622879.390166, "message": "So in that case, the easiest solution would probably be to keep the proprietary {$param} syntax and avoid  XPath in filters at all", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349221}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622907.1271701, "message": "And keep everything in a $pool array, as we do now, so it's agnostic to the DS output", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349236}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622966.2887609, "message": "This is working on the discussion that Crane doesn't have to be XML/XSLT/XPath... it could potentially be JSON, or anything", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349251}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622695.402421, "message": "It must if you want to allow XPath filtering", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349164}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622698.254416, "message": "so we should definitely do it in the extensions part", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349166}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622772.9275329, "message": "It kind of is, if we're discussing removing DS output params and instead allowing filters to parse DS output itself", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349188}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622840.0880821, "message": "yes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349207}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622840.617197, "message": "If you're using Crane with JSON, then you filter with some sort of JSON syntax", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349208}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622853.9664559, "message": "Wow.. hold on..", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349214}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622900.541168, "message": "here's the question though", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349230}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622924.3932581, "message": "@Huib: https://github.com/symphonycms/wg/wiki/Data-output-POC", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349244}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623037.108748, "message": "fairly big it seems", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349279}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623075.684747, "message": "ok, but json can not build html..", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349291}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623110.5371649, "message": "I don't see how the proposal disallows that", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349302}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623133.082314, "message": "Making more work for little gain", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349306}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623269.258028, "message": "I worry that Xpath is too powerful for that scenario", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349338}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623428.0768459, "message": "Perhaps there's another text field in the filter", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349401}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624064.767729, "message": "Currently you have a pool of parameters. It's either in the pool or it's not (runtime issue). For XPath, the scope of failure is wider (runtime and logic issues)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349584}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624446.8682771, "message": "I agree fancy XPath is going to increase the complexity of debugging. I am also not convinced we can solve dependancy issues easily. Imagine: ds/entry[/data/some-other-ds/entry/name/@handle = /data/another-different-ds/entry/name@handle]/@id", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349683}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624872.6977651, "message": "bye Convore.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349800}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622671.6978979, "message": "The actual dependency resolution can be achieved in a few different ways. I don't think that'll be a problem", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349153}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622747.1024461, "message": "but that's not what we're talking about here", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349177}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622771.8662241, "message": "p", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349187}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622994.484956, "message": "Hmm.. that is interesting", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349258}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623001.6550341, "message": "Benefit: XSLT dies out and JSON becomes the defacto, and we still have a relevant product?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349262}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623023.7399759, "message": "I see", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349271}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623036.4240611, "message": "I don't really think it's a good idea, you may as well start from scratch if that happens", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349278}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623328.6511779, "message": "A dropdown \"Is\", \"Contains\", \"Earlier Than\"", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349359}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623367.7489419, "message": "So the value of the filter becomes a single data type: number, string, nodeset/array", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349372}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622738.887851, "message": "Yeah", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349174}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622739.5061619, "message": "yes i know", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349175}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622763.215699, "message": "agnostic filtering mechanism right now means designing something proprietary, right?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349184}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622770.663034, "message": "Ye[", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349186}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622817.912086, "message": "Not necessarily. I think it means that the filtering syntax needs to be appropriate to the technology used", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349200}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622827.0298009, "message": "So if you are using Crane with XML/XSLT, you'd filter with XPath", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349204}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622892.1328959, "message": "Which would be awful", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349228}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307622929.371521, "message": "thanks", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349245}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623085.2042799, "message": "When will be the next discussion about the \"maybe ditch XML\" topic? I want to say \"no\" to that :-)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349296}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623089.3480389, "message": "No but JSON-based template languages can", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349297}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624649.6208501, "message": "a ds in a ds, sortof", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349726}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623298.6152489, "message": "you could reference any DS, even the one that's doing the filter", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349345}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623029.2928009, "message": "how big of a chance is that?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349276}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623197.3961, "message": ";)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349324}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623231.337929, "message": "fair enough", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349333}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623348.4760671, "message": "what about between {x} and {y}", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349364}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623409.462261, "message": "yeah", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349390}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623813.3506401, "message": "but for a new person, to me, it'd be a big WTF", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349519}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623877.8450899, "message": "if we are going to allow other syntaxes too, this will be.. strange", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349534}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624041.553699, "message": "what if we didn't use xpath or whatever language alltogether?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349576}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624088.203253, "message": "attach it to a page", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349590}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624099.4547589, "message": "not us", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349605}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624239.1990139, "message": "The way I see it is the filtering UI would be very similar to what it is now", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349641}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624294.1044641, "message": "Click on \"Another data source\", it is replaced with a list of data sources", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349655}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623278.0245919, "message": "Hehe", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349340}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623315.569243, "message": "but that is also possible now", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349352}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623404.0587029, "message": "the fallback option", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349387}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623016.276221, "message": "we've been exploring the idea of making the system agnostic as far as output/template methods in the event that XSLT has no future", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349268}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623066.932461, "message": "Not my point", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349288}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623529.4993701, "message": "right", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349433}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623697.263689, "message": "But you will have to learn it anyway", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349470}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623828.362859, "message": "agreed with brendo", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349522}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623925.3001699, "message": "So? You've got other datasources", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349545}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623932.8247809, "message": "nah", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349546}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623954.2915411, "message": "you'd have to have a debug view for every DS dependency resolution iteration", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349552}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623972.4966331, "message": "Why isn't this a problem already?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349558}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624128.182658, "message": "because you might have some selection UI when building the filter that tells you what's available to you", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349612}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623049.378824, "message": "Well we are starting from scratch :-)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349285}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623171.534152, "message": "To be honest, I will have to think about htis for a while", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349314}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623192.5872149, "message": "yes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349322}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623426.865809, "message": "I think possibly", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349400}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624669.0021181, "message": "shit, I am getting an unread count, but no messages...", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349731}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624795.607718, "message": "thanks", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349779}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623077.6917081, "message": "Was being flippant, sorry", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349292}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623293.8620169, "message": "yep", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349343}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624744.8061349, "message": "Gents.... #crane-dev on Freenode please", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349759}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623809.374012, "message": "what about this", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349512}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623182.8680351, "message": "I can't really oversee all the consequences at this moment", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349317}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623238.2822151, "message": "ok, sounds fair", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349334}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623306.4152031, "message": "yes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349349}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623373.631635, "message": "between [input] and [input]", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349374}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623413.034632, "message": "Oh", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349391}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623564.4235229, "message": "So by pulling these out into standard UI for each filter, it becomes more obvious", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349446}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623836.032644, "message": "and here I thought my comments were being ignored", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349525}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623899.2572131, "message": "XPath visible to the user. But perhaps some UI to help build the XPath. Anyway, yes, this is off topic", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349538}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623467.83093, "message": "playing advocate of the devil here", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349415}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623578.2412021, "message": "Yeah I'm happy with that", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349449}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624365.6239929, "message": "@buzzomatic for us there is not, because we are familiar with the fields and their output", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349668}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624405.9047489, "message": "Shouldn't it be possible to test the value of expressions too since Crane allows multiple instances?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349674}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624610.520884, "message": "Feck, Convore ate my messages. It's fucked.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349714}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624709.775702, "message": "Or, if it's really impossible, you can just choose a list of DSes to wait for", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349743}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624780.3829169, "message": "use a web client/", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349776}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623320.0590129, "message": "the dependencies will be very complex, maybe even circular", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349356}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623406.7319169, "message": "if color does not exist, make it blue?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349389}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623413.742064, "message": "use blue*", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349394}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623422.030143, "message": "{color | 'blue'}", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349397}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623436.6407161, "message": "That also", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349403}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623490.7669809, "message": "The UI doesn't tell me, it relies on me reading a manual or the code", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349422}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623544.949898, "message": "but wouldn't the cons (xpath parsing to find dependencies, extra processing layer -> slower) be bigger than the  gains (multiple params per ds, more flexible output)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349439}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623583.0452261, "message": "so you would have two filters for date. Later than X and another filter for Earlier than Y", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349452}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623584.0528951, "message": "Enumeration syntax is not necessary when you allow multiple filters to the same field which is what S3 does. The only exception is that the system assumes that the filters are of an \"AND\" operand and not \"OR\" but if you allow both, then you can say: \"$color\" or \"blue\" defined in two field filters", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349455}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623587.866647, "message": "are there places that breaks down?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349456}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623670.7095251, "message": "It's fine for us to talk about throw around XPath like it's english, but for a new user it's a pretty big hurdle, and if you don't have the tree readily available, how will you know what the xpath is while creating a datasource?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349468}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623730.5963819, "message": "what if we could show the tree? or an expression tester? or both?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349478}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623834.0103519, "message": "same here", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349523}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623935.5983, "message": "You're not trying to filter on the current DS", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349548}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624062.947206, "message": "When you're adding a filter, I think it'd be fair if you had a drop down of options\n- Root (/)\n- Datasource A (/data/ds-a)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349583}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623613.5857301, "message": "So a Number field might provide options \"Equals\", \"Greater than\", \"Less than\" and \"Between\"", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349463}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623616.1456881, "message": "Late comment, but one concern I have about XPath for parameters is that it's potentially a really tricky one to debug", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349464}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623810.492456, "message": "so a user has to know what the field's xml/output is before they even create a datasource", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349514}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623811.2158959, "message": "Or if you want a value from a DS, choose \"Data source\", the \"{DS name}\" and then chgoose the field name", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349517}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623869.5832341, "message": "back to the remark made earlier..", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349532}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623914.839952, "message": "because your in the backend and haven't created a datasource yet", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349540}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623951.1140089, "message": "Whatever we build, it needs to be understandable to jeeva.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349551}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624091.1626439, "message": "open the datasource", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349594}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624094.581939, "message": "Because you don't need to know the XML", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349599}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624096.280246, "message": "sure it's simple and has other concerns", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349601}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624135.8863111, "message": "me too.. convore is super annoying", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349615}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624612.9996829, "message": "or is just a bandaid for our current mismash of page params, datasource params, url params and system params?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349715}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624615.0346789, "message": "what's necessary to make the current params system do the remaining 20% as well?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349716}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623734.1523199, "message": "unless I'm misunderstanding, xpath for filter will work over the Document that's created from the fields", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349479}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623811.060102, "message": "again, for us, fine we work with it daily and know fields and generally what the XML looks like", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349516}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623797.513242, "message": "something like that", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349500}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623919.8547659, "message": "that's a horrible workflow", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349544}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624019.1078579, "message": "I think we can work on solving the complexities of DS dependency resolution, and building XPath filters in the filtering UI", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349570}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624051.125809, "message": "all we are doing is filtering on the value of another field, right?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349579}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624051.311466, "message": "and instead used?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349580}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624109.975563, "message": "brend0, that's not right at all", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349609}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624136.5315411, "message": "@Allen yeah me three", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349616}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624186.985148, "message": "Yeah", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349627}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624220.0976751, "message": "anyway, back to my flame suit", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349635}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624247.463913, "message": "No context switching", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349644}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624315.216049, "message": "Click one, it adds the Xpath", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349661}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624344.8480599, "message": "Because it won't be sufficient for all use cases", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349667}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623836.5915389, "message": "I think this is a UI thing", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349526}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623896.6164031, "message": "so what if we didn't use xpath, but the normal filter UI applied to other sections?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349537}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623919.396956, "message": "then no xpath is needed at all?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349543}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623945.047296, "message": "that's horrible UX", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349550}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624062.7681839, "message": "so why not use the normal filter UI, but applied to other sections", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349582}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624100.1506729, "message": "sorry, I'm going to play mega devil's advocate", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349607}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624104.42259, "message": "how do you know @id exists?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349608}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624836.6014431, "message": "http://webchat.freenode.net/", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349793}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623801.3652599, "message": "shall we get back to parameters instead of the filtering UI?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349504}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623804.6545279, "message": "because I think brendo's comment is very valid", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349506}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623806.8376901, "message": "We could devise some clever UI", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349508}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623806.252795, "message": "True, two filters on the same field", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349507}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624178.0918579, "message": "we should consider IRC for this in future", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349623}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623808.4868989, "message": "If you want a value from  the environment (page params), click \"Environment\", click \"Current URL\" and it inserts the XPath to get that value", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349511}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623975.294271, "message": "Nick, you've just invented a slogan for the UX team", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349559}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624090.432771, "message": "go back into the backend", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349593}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624092.8562019, "message": "refresh the frontend page and see if it worked", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349597}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624285.521466, "message": "brend0, basically there's no reason to visit the DS page more than once", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349652}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624517.010046, "message": "/ds/entry[@id = /data/*[contains(name(),'test')]/entry[@id = current()/item/@id]]", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349695}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624536.539515, "message": "but how often have we come across a situation where we go, 'damn, I wish I could xpath for these filters'", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349701}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624579.751575, "message": "Are we looking at XPath because it makes 20% of the time easier at the risk of neglecting the 80% normal scenario?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349708}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624621.943701, "message": "/me waits for a Convore flood", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349718}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624645.5542541, "message": "if this is going to hinder our discussion, I can handle compiling logs from two places", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349725}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307623828.108547, "message": "holy shit, I just got a flood of messages", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349521}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624007.3977089, "message": "@buzzomatic, because the syntax is more obvious?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349568}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624012.5302739, "message": "i presume?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349569}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624178.781991, "message": "(Don't we already have freenode/#crane-dev with a logs?)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349624}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624204.9049671, "message": "sure", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349632}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624205.1828401, "message": "ok, sounds good", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349633}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624237.0794699, "message": "craig, have you managed to read my comments before brendo's comments came in? ;)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349639}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624254.2288611, "message": "ok", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349645}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624261.2310331, "message": "Under S2 filters, like a tag list, you get some clickable text", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349646}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624337.1423149, "message": "Yeah I think it can be solved by a smart UI, but things like {ds/entry[name/@handle = 'cat']/@id} should try and be avoided", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349664}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624081.0824981, "message": "a user has to create a datasource", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349586}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624098.6732309, "message": "again, think of a common user", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349604}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624123.8130651, "message": "what the fuck is happening to Convore?! I'm getting streams of out of order messages", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349610}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624142.548022, "message": "Convore sucks", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349617}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624196.244374, "message": "Let's keep it all in one place for now", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349629}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624209.6477661, "message": "Craig has a hard time enough as it is keeping all of thesr ideas together :P", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349634}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624337.299691, "message": "You can write Xpath yourself, or you have some clickable wizard to build it for you", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349665}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624497.7733741, "message": "trying to take a step back here", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349692}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624077.607959, "message": "And then you pick the ds, and enter say: @id", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349585}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624324.968442, "message": "nick, then why use xpath at all?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349663}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624421.124047, "message": "Rowan?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349680}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624708.18347, "message": "@brend0 no, there's no reason for anyone to do that just to create one DS", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349739}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624092.0203769, "message": "add a filter", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349595}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624457.7795761, "message": "heh", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349689}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624630.955878, "message": "Have said this a few times already, but why not stick with the normal filtering UI, applied to other sections, too?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349721}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624708.743722, "message": "Not sure what you mean", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349740}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624709.2959909, "message": "Allen, if it evaluates to true, execute the DS, if not, delay", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349742}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624750.2721751, "message": "this is a mess", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349763}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624755.1730731, "message": "what's the url for the web client again?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349768}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624803.8156199, "message": "in on windows", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349783}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624807.2293811, "message": ":(", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349786}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624810.762851, "message": "me knows", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349787}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624864.707026, "message": "got it", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349798}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624095.4293351, "message": "your told $ds-blah", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349600}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624097.298687, "message": "but imo it's a hell of alot easier than XPath", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349603}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624573.374063, "message": "I am still not convinced to use xpath", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349705}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624765.3714859, "message": "I don't have irc installerd here..;)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349769}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624767.4336691, "message": "installed*", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349770}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624792.99984, "message": "http://webchat.freenode.net/", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349778}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624135.5535121, "message": "Go to ?debug, find the thing you want to filter, go do DS create, and enter it into the filter", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349614}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624159.729552, "message": "Got all of brend0s messages in one huge dump", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349620}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624176.7969129, "message": "(Let's stick with it until the WG chats are done)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349622}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624198.982758, "message": "we're going with IRC in the future. This sucks.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349630}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624240.2247691, "message": "I still think anything that involves a user switching between frontend and backend contexts and setting a filter by trial and error is horrible", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349642}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624281.2025161, "message": "Imagine that was two options like: \"Environment variables\" and \"Anotehr data source\"", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349651}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624298.4006281, "message": "Click one, you get the list of fields", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349656}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624310.067009, "message": "Click that, you get a list of things from its XML (values/attributes)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349660}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624386.762723, "message": "nick's ui suggestions are good though", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349671}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624517.8895171, "message": "yum", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349697}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624552.900444, "message": "I still go back to the issue that XPath alone is not sufficient for the system to calculate dependancy. XPath cannot tell if the predicate does not match because another XML piece hasn't rendered yet or if such a value does not exist by design.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349703}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624698.3065159, "message": "It's good for beginners and basic cases", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349735}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624700.1059, "message": "@brend0 no, there's no reason for anyone to do that just to create one DS", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349737}, {"user_id": 23184, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624732.7475419, "message": "nick, what is?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349752}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624742.1344991, "message": "Jumping on a call, I'll be quiet for a bit", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349758}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624796.5337529, "message": "Huib, grab Colloquy", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349780}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624801.703603, "message": "If you're on OSX", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349782}, {"user_id": 23042, "stars": [], "topic_id": 38740, "date_created": 1307624811.348316, "message": "XChat", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1349789}]