convore.json/groups/python/learning-python-web-development-basics/messages.json

[{"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303934807.3132761, "message": "I'm just beginning Python... Have been consuming a fair amount of stuff (online docs, podcasts, open courseware, books) but haven't really found a whole lot that covers the basics of web development.", "group_id": 292, "id": 831736}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303934826.6035509, "message": "Most of the stuff I can find on the topic is about this or that particular framework, and I know if I ever develop anything in earnest it'll be a good idea to use one.", "group_id": 292, "id": 831747}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303935734.911963, "message": "php, as I understand it, is weak because it is monolithic in the way it approaches...  ok for simple solutions, doesn't map well to many problems.", "group_id": 292, "id": 832000}, {"user_id": 275, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936126.856741, "message": "i'd ditto starting with something like flask", "group_id": 292, "id": 832086}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936143.9637351, "message": "yeah i saw that", "group_id": 292, "id": 832090}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303935682.7747459, "message": "I mean things like:   server,   or cluster of servers doing load balance.... cloud computing (a sort of virtual server-cluster);   data stores, and their types;    client(s) - servers vs. communicating processes (peer-to-peer activity... such as we have implemented in convore here, as you get a \"ding\" that a new post just happened on your thread)", "group_id": 292, "id": 831980}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936151.8389449, "message": "think i can find it again", "group_id": 292, "id": 832091}, {"user_id": 275, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936159.6430731, "message": "it wraps the basic web components: the request, the response, etc, but doesn't give you so much that you get lost during setup", "group_id": 292, "id": 832093}, {"user_id": 275, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936195.2839799, "message": "lots og \"and why amd i doing this again\" \ntrust me\"", "group_id": 292, "id": 832101}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303935851.1927481, "message": "Right. So I'm wondering where to start with the very simplest stuff like server setups and responding to requests...", "group_id": 292, "id": 832025}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936185.786109, "message": "awesome. yeah that was my fear of jumping into a framework was that it'd obfuscate stuff", "group_id": 292, "id": 832100}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936596.263984, "message": "Here is Eric's post that I referred to: http://www.eflorenzano.com/blog/post/technology-behind-convore/", "group_id": 292, "id": 832221}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303937008.5779941, "message": "Jim Bennet's  \"Practical Django Projects\" is one you can quickly walk through, build something, and start to get it....", "group_id": 292, "id": 832311}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303937109.9052081, "message": "If you're new to all this I'd recommend (but it's $$)   running (eventually) something like wingIDE.  Debug templates in django - single stepping and seeing what some part of of framework is doing can be REALLY helpful in learning when you are to that level of detail, ready for that.   Plus, code completion, class lookups really help too...", "group_id": 292, "id": 832318}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303935800.116909, "message": "(mainly client-peer relationships, and some basic assumptions about where network boundaries are)", "group_id": 292, "id": 832010}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303935288.5185499, "message": "I think web development is one of the more complex of software endeavors, so many either assume you have some systems perspective - or are not well aware of it themselves.", "group_id": 292, "id": 831864}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303937346.8518491, "message": "I've not done a huge amount in python, but dabbled, been aware of and used it since sometime in the late 90's", "group_id": 292, "id": 832352}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303937357.742173, "message": "what do you use most?", "group_id": 292, "id": 832355}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303937467.0870759, "message": "My current full-time job (research / biostatistics ... a bit of the track of my last 25 yrs)  is full-time django", "group_id": 292, "id": 832380}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303937756.937222, "message": "yeah - for simple stuff, you don't need formality (in fact in can get in the way).", "group_id": 292, "id": 832473}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303937362.9776659, "message": "But last 4-5 years, I'm up into it.", "group_id": 292, "id": 832357}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303937415.1930771, "message": "C / python ... and all the linux shell tools you can shake a stick at.", "group_id": 292, "id": 832371}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303937653.721951, "message": "(but you can get overwhelmed - which is why drawing pics, and keeping your view of what's going on rather organized can help, keep you out of \"overwhelmed\" space)", "group_id": 292, "id": 832441}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303935509.791997, "message": "yeah, for the most part.... I mean, I'm no expert. But yeah.", "group_id": 292, "id": 831934}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303935629.235477, "message": "Right... Here's the thing. I know a fair amount of PHP, and I think that's the disconnect, because PHP is almost exclusively focused on web. So I'm used to thinking in those terms, you know?", "group_id": 292, "id": 831960}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303937572.9263079, "message": "So - I build systems architecture teams by starting to talk about the structure of the internet, and communicating process, and the emerging \"web\" space in the 90's....  (that's what I guess I started in this thread:  \"draw pictures\")", "group_id": 292, "id": 832411}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303937730.6600599, "message": "right... yeah the drawing is a great idea. I did something similar recently for a system I was trying to get a handle on. Just map the whole flow of the application, understand how requests get processed, etc...", "group_id": 292, "id": 832465}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [{"date_created": 1303937766.2560439, "user_id": 1}], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303937733.6175809, "message": "so, keeping it simple & organized in your head is key to having years and years of fun ;-)", "group_id": 292, "id": 832466}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303937865.92081, "message": "inkScape is ok too - but I would want something where my lines to objects have gravity / stay connected, so when I re-organize things in my efforts to \"make sense of it\" I don't have any extra noisy-work to do....", "group_id": 292, "id": 832492}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303934870.0759139, "message": "But it'd be nice to get a handle on the basics so I understand a little bit about what's happening behind the scenes", "group_id": 292, "id": 831755}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303934884.96593, "message": "Anyway, was wondering if anyone here could recommend any resources...", "group_id": 292, "id": 831758}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936277.5703399, "message": "The problem is coupling vs. reasonable defaults - there is a LOT of complexity that can come into web design.", "group_id": 292, "id": 832119}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936636.9345019, "message": "sweet. thanks very much.", "group_id": 292, "id": 832230}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303935665.661427, "message": "The Python stuff I've been reading so far doesn't really talk about it, so I'm having trouble figuring out how that works.", "group_id": 292, "id": 831974}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936031.7485771, "message": "Right...  You'll want a little compare / contrast of the various frameworks.... and how they do this.", "group_id": 292, "id": 832060}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303935388.6538141, "message": "i know that stuff, for the most part", "group_id": 292, "id": 831900}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [{"date_created": 1304039943.2581229, "user_id": 31561}], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303935778.3497751, "message": "\"web\" is nothing, doesn't exist (in a sense).   Its a concept which encompases information, and interaction of networked entities, and how they communicate", "group_id": 292, "id": 832006}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303935370.044116, "message": "Before you worry about Python, or any other language, or any framework, I suggest you start by drawing a diagram of what goes on with web applications, web serving - the general kinds of things served, and the kinds of technical clients served.", "group_id": 292, "id": 831893}, {"user_id": 275, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936184.2825749, "message": "django can be a lot to grasp when starting out", "group_id": 292, "id": 832098}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936347.221447, "message": "it's on their blog?", "group_id": 292, "id": 832132}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936357.5713241, "message": "That gets a little perspective beyond \"web app / web server\" into \"network application, and dealing with the needs", "group_id": 292, "id": 832135}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936418.209116, "message": "thanks", "group_id": 292, "id": 832164}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936427.5630119, "message": "very helpful", "group_id": 292, "id": 832168}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936558.3655651, "message": "Here is the comparative repo I mentioned: https://github.com/agiliq/so-starving", "group_id": 292, "id": 832213}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936790.715003, "message": "There are _bunches_ of online tutorials, check books (e-library books are your friend).", "group_id": 292, "id": 832266}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936890.576206, "message": "And - if you are ok with a lot setup for you, and are ready to deal w/ the richness of django - which is really rooted in data driven sites (i.e. news story comes up soon as reporter enters it) ... then look at pinax", "group_id": 292, "id": 832295}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303937319.55371, "message": "mmmm I'm a longtime developer...  (like from the -gag! - 70's ;-)....", "group_id": 292, "id": 832348}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303937385.9212019, "message": "Built cell phones - I'm an EE / Computer Engineer", "group_id": 292, "id": 832364}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303937498.1336069, "message": "sorry  fulltime python ... I'm _learning_ django, since I think the modularity of it will suite a bunch of needs where I currently am.", "group_id": 292, "id": 832389}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303937623.64101, "message": "it's really all very much fun, because there is so much complexity, you just can't get bored", "group_id": 292, "id": 832430}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303935453.9324269, "message": "Then you are comfortable with the concept of layering in software development, the difference between so-called thick and thin clients, communicating processes, and so forth?", "group_id": 292, "id": 831928}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303935574.0740149, "message": "If this is the case, then draw out what you see as the landscape (the big concepts, and how they relate), and compare with which parts you are interested in, and the major challenges you are going to deal with and solve.   From there, see how well various frameworks map to the concepts.", "group_id": 292, "id": 831942}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303935868.4850421, "message": "mod_python was easy to set up but I know it isn't the only (or best) option", "group_id": 292, "id": 832029}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936119.6901419, "message": "cool, yeah I'd just read about those the other day", "group_id": 292, "id": 832083}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936206.1529231, "message": "heh", "group_id": 292, "id": 832107}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936333.265023, "message": "I'd recommend as just a nice read what @ericflo posted about how they built, what they use for this (convore).", "group_id": 292, "id": 832131}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936746.974025, "message": "flask is light.", "group_id": 292, "id": 832256}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936826.98841, "message": "Also - webfaction (for example) has a video of setting up django (and bunch more) by walking you through creating and deploying your own pastebin", "group_id": 292, "id": 832276}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936937.2359059, "message": "here's the webfaction docs link: http://docs.webfaction.com/software/django/index.html", "group_id": 292, "id": 832300}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303938037.0633631, "message": "Hehe, yeah I use that feature a whole lot.", "group_id": 292, "id": 832537}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303938438.1394219, "message": "It just always works, if exectuted honestly - in ways everyone can \"feel\" - it is what works for having fun as a technical person; it is what works for creating a product;  it is what works in making a business;  it is what works for the marketplace -", "group_id": 292, "id": 832667}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303938458.9409659, "message": "it is what works.  period.   it is the fundamentals of relationships - social + technical.", "group_id": 292, "id": 832672}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [{"date_created": 1303938472.1581211, "user_id": 1}], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303938465.659348, "message": "And when it works, it's just fun!", "group_id": 292, "id": 832675}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936754.753052, "message": "that's a good idea", "group_id": 292, "id": 832258}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303938701.461802, "message": "@ericflo: Convore's great. We moved all our working group discussions here (for Symphony CMS) and have not regretted it.", "group_id": 292, "id": 832727}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [{"date_created": 1304435916.1957171, "user_id": 20170}], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936076.880296, "message": "Perhaps start w/ flask + weurkzeug ... it's small enough, does little enough that it might actually be digestible / understandable", "group_id": 292, "id": 832076}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303937795.8117349, "message": "I use omnigraffle on mac, but just as happy to use yEd", "group_id": 292, "id": 832481}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303938152.889107, "message": "Before PyCon-2011 (I was registration and volunteer coordinator),  convore had just launched, and Jesse Noller posted a new group here asking \"is it ok to refer people to a new launch site, do we need agreement?\"", "group_id": 292, "id": 832580}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303938274.899332, "message": "My reaction is not a reflection on Eric and / or team:  it is evidence of that clarity of \"pictures\" and what they wanted to do - a clarity which SHOWED iteself in actual use.", "group_id": 292, "id": 832621}, {"user_id": 275, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936416.4473269, "message": "dieinafire.com", "group_id": 292, "id": 832163}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936587.5560219, "message": "yes, that was it. thanks.", "group_id": 292, "id": 832220}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936133.067481, "message": "I'll find a github link I stumbled accross recently that did \"a project\" in something like 20 frameworks, most python, but java, ruby, and I think PHP was in there too - that compare / contrast might be helpful", "group_id": 292, "id": 832087}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303937829.69121, "message": "Oh I'd never heard of yEd...", "group_id": 292, "id": 832486}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [{"date_created": 1303938224.579092, "user_id": 1}], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303938207.2416959, "message": "Over time, it worked really well - I'd not regretted just \"jumping in\" based on my gut instinct, first hours of use.", "group_id": 292, "id": 832601}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936397.0868549, "message": "I think it's on eric's blog - I'll find that page too... looking for the comparative frameworks repo (which I'll give in a link in a few seconds here)", "group_id": 292, "id": 832151}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936424.631382, "message": "thanks guys", "group_id": 292, "id": 832167}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936480.377732, "message": "I think the die in a fire was a joke, and what Eric referred to as part of his motivation.... I'll find the post link in a sec.", "group_id": 292, "id": 832184}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936671.8862951, "message": "For python frameworks, there is a lot, and I'd say this:", "group_id": 292, "id": 832236}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303937107.609812, "message": "noted", "group_id": 292, "id": 832317}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303937336.6745911, "message": "heh", "group_id": 292, "id": 832351}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303937746.364563, "message": "good advice", "group_id": 292, "id": 832471}, {"user_id": 275, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936418.8873401, "message": "I think", "group_id": 292, "id": 832165}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936762.9926939, "message": "django is popular (and modular - and a lot to get your head around!)", "group_id": 292, "id": 832259}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936979.5556259, "message": "you're a wealth of information :)", "group_id": 292, "id": 832302}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303937603.8963051, "message": "i see. makes sense.", "group_id": 292, "id": 832425}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303937169.000591, "message": "Wait until you're ready, then get a trial (it's 30 days, given out in 15 day chunks - so you can do you 15; wait a month; pick it up again ... which is useful)", "group_id": 292, "id": 832331}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303937291.1014199, "message": "Thanks man! Much appreciated. Are you a longitime Python developer?", "group_id": 292, "id": 832346}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936729.380147, "message": "Draw how a request comes in, what it goes through, and how it comes back - then look at how involved a framework is in that, vs. how it \"lets\" you make decisions (i.e. do lots of work, worry about lots of details)", "group_id": 292, "id": 832249}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303936827.471437, "message": "I actually have a Django book around here somewhere", "group_id": 292, "id": 832277}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303937235.414412, "message": "Good luck!    Keep asking questions :-)", "group_id": 292, "id": 832338}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303937919.7973621, "message": "Yeah I've been using Inkscape for lots of stuff, or simple mindmap software like xMind", "group_id": 292, "id": 832503}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303938515.2764261, "message": "Making things hard - that's easy;  it's quite the paradox!", "group_id": 292, "id": 832689}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303938555.300308, "message": "Hey,  @ericflo!", "group_id": 292, "id": 832699}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303937399.916476, "message": "ah, neat", "group_id": 292, "id": 832365}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303938230.5132511, "message": "Some who like & know Eric will tell you what a great job the Convore team has done, etc.", "group_id": 292, "id": 832607}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303938237.8690071, "message": "I will tell you something more fundamental:", "group_id": 292, "id": 832609}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303938487.8657839, "message": "Making it fun is fun.", "group_id": 292, "id": 832679}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303938313.793617, "message": "I have seen this work _clearly_ so many times in my career - from web apps, to really complicated secure communication systems, to complex smart phones.", "group_id": 292, "id": 832628}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303938510.592072, "message": "yeah, tell me about it", "group_id": 292, "id": 832686}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303937605.227077, "message": "This was basically the discussion around first thoughts of \"smart phones\" too", "group_id": 292, "id": 832426}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303937683.0251529, "message": "Eric's post is good in this regard - shows where he put what and why (at a simple enough level you can make sense of it)", "group_id": 292, "id": 832451}, {"user_id": 1, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303938512.3657501, "message": "So true.", "group_id": 292, "id": 832687}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303938957.970125, "message": "Enjoy", "group_id": 292, "id": 832793}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303938011.4788661, "message": "inkScape is - I think - fundamental!   You can overlay,  heck - my pic here is an inkscape trace of a photo of me!", "group_id": 292, "id": 832526}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303938065.8842371, "message": "Let me tie pictures, clear and simple thinking to Eric's post, and convore's launch (as a story)", "group_id": 292, "id": 832547}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303938182.877063, "message": "I tried it, and within minutes had volunteers.... so I \"dam'd the torpeedos\" and just posted on the volunteer pages to watch convore", "group_id": 292, "id": 832590}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303938364.8453131, "message": "your \"gut\" as a consumer / user is your first guide, but this is the product of someone investing in getting it clear _in their head_ and connecting that just as clearly to needs / intent / goals.", "group_id": 292, "id": 832645}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303938319.0512111, "message": "Your \"gut", "group_id": 292, "id": 832629}, {"user_id": 1, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303938597.5296381, "message": "@yarkot hello :)", "group_id": 292, "id": 832706}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303938887.5608139, "message": "Thanks so much man", "group_id": 292, "id": 832771}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303938910.683816, "message": "glad it was.", "group_id": 292, "id": 832779}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303938622.4153171, "message": "You sound like you're ready to write a book, btw ;)", "group_id": 292, "id": 832711}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303938750.4775779, "message": "So - being busy, busy, busy ... that's one thing...  being busy on _the right things_ ... that requires stopping, thinking, sharing (convore - a sort of persistent twitter stream - among other things, can help facilitate this)", "group_id": 292, "id": 832738}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303938763.0614071, "message": ":-)", "group_id": 292, "id": 832743}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303938782.9162199, "message": "/me nods in agreement", "group_id": 292, "id": 832749}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303938880.7259691, "message": "Well, I'm off to choir (I love singing in groups, working in groups ;-))", "group_id": 292, "id": 832768}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303938893.4921379, "message": "NP!", "group_id": 292, "id": 832774}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [{"date_created": 1303938518.087255, "user_id": 1}], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303938501.5513971, "message": "Making things \"easy\" (for yourself, or others) is _hard work_", "group_id": 292, "id": 832683}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303938545.5595851, "message": ":-)", "group_id": 292, "id": 832696}, {"user_id": 1, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303938720.522948, "message": "@czheng Great, I'm so glad it's working out!", "group_id": 292, "id": 832729}, {"user_id": 1, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303938903.931462, "message": "Have fun @yarkot", "group_id": 292, "id": 832777}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303938892.8172569, "message": "Very helpful", "group_id": 292, "id": 832773}, {"user_id": 1930, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303938984.7308331, "message": "Thanks @ericflo @czheng!   To harmonize - and to be truthful, hit a bar after w/  friends - wednesday nights are among my favorites!", "group_id": 292, "id": 832797}, {"user_id": 2313, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303943550.066026, "message": "If you want to learn web development take a look a look at the HTTP protocol and see how it works, you don't have to know the exact details but you should know the basics, take a look at WSGI to see how you interact with a web server in python and write a small application using Werkzeug(http://werkzeug.pocoo.org/) or something similar. This will give you an overview over the technology used and the abstraction levels you should know exist. If you want to actually develop larger applications you might want to switch to a framework such as Django, Flask or Pyramid", "group_id": 292, "id": 833580}, {"user_id": 12404, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303946666.6502409, "message": "when I was trying to understand WSGI, I found this to be very helpful. http://pythonpaste.org/webob/do-it-yourself.html in this context, Webob is just a nice convenience so you don't have to deal with the environ dictionary directly.  All frameworks have similar conveniences.", "group_id": 292, "id": 834039}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303952773.5077901, "message": "Yeah, that's exactly what I'd like to start with", "group_id": 292, "id": 834761}, {"user_id": 4141, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303952844.130234, "message": "you know, I'm not sure, I haven't done that yet (but I will!)", "group_id": 292, "id": 834772}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303952889.603323, "message": "ok", "group_id": 292, "id": 834782}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303952897.2646899, "message": "ok cool", "group_id": 292, "id": 834783}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303952981.0316041, "message": "awesome", "group_id": 292, "id": 834795}, {"user_id": 4141, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303952680.8743169, "message": "one thing that I wish I did earlier (and should do soon) is write a simple app in pure WSGI", "group_id": 292, "id": 834738}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303952789.2724619, "message": "i know that at some point it'll be good to move to a framework, but I'd like to get a sense of those very simple things", "group_id": 292, "id": 834765}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303952053.8195131, "message": "brilliant, thanks guys", "group_id": 292, "id": 834643}, {"user_id": 4141, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303952710.256223, "message": "you don't need to use a framework to make some super simple apps in pure Python, and doing that can be great to get a good handle on what's happening under the hood", "group_id": 292, "id": 834746}, {"user_id": 4141, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303952854.5718019, "message": "I still think that making a basic project in Flask is the best first step", "group_id": 292, "id": 834774}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [{"date_created": 1304037036.8247681, "user_id": 31556}], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303953583.1445611, "message": "Popped both of those blogs into Google Reader, thanks", "group_id": 292, "id": 834901}, {"user_id": 4141, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303952526.8403001, "message": "I went through a similar process - learning Python web development from scratch recently (but I didn't have any significant PHP or other web experience beforehand) so I'll chime in real quick", "group_id": 292, "id": 834698}, {"user_id": 4141, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303952545.68418, "message": "first of all, I have to agree that Flask is a fantastic framework to get started with", "group_id": 292, "id": 834704}, {"user_id": 4141, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303953059.1313629, "message": "this isn't about web development in itself, but I found Steve Losh's blog (http://stevelosh.com/blog/) really useful because he covers a lot of tools that Python developers (web especially) need to be aware of", "group_id": 292, "id": 834804}, {"user_id": 4141, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303952586.4161479, "message": "it's extremely well documented, encourages good technique and it doesn't obfuscate a lot, so it was very, _very_ valuable to me - I saw more it wraps about WSGI and takes care of work for me", "group_id": 292, "id": 834711}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303952623.1395791, "message": "cool", "group_id": 292, "id": 834719}, {"user_id": 4141, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303952628.7392299, "message": "I started working with Django lately, but I'm still finding that there's a lot of \"magic\" that I'm not 100% comfortable with", "group_id": 292, "id": 834724}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303952647.261003, "message": "Yeah I'm not a big fan of \"magic\"", "group_id": 292, "id": 834729}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303952814.230125, "message": "So should I just jump into the WSGI docs?", "group_id": 292, "id": 834768}, {"user_id": 4141, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303952874.1641231, "message": "just my 2c", "group_id": 292, "id": 834781}, {"user_id": 4141, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303952965.940026, "message": "http://lucumr.pocoo.org/ (he's the author of Flask)", "group_id": 292, "id": 834791}, {"user_id": 4141, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303952872.1554811, "message": "it will be really, really quick, and you'll get a result right away which is really good 'cause it keeps attention and interest high", "group_id": 292, "id": 834780}, {"user_id": 4141, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1303952941.554008, "message": "hmm ... what else ... if you want to do some light reading, I recommend Armin Ronacher's blog", "group_id": 292, "id": 834787}, {"user_id": 31901, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21692, "date_created": 1304290990.709686, "message": "Hum, yeah, Django's magic should go away!", "group_id": 292, "id": 878562}]