convore.json/groups/design-1/what-is-the-going-rate-for-custom-website-design/messages.json

[{"user_id": 15683, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1298574990.8114369, "message": "Hi, I'm a graphic design student who just received an offer to do a bit of web design. Unfortunately, I have no idea what to charge! Any help would be appreciated!", "group_id": 629, "id": 200592}, {"user_id": 2841, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298575364.464431, "user_id": 14885}, {"date_created": 1298575526.5699589, "user_id": 10694}, {"date_created": 1298575622.7661991, "user_id": 12525}, {"date_created": 1298587440.305301, "user_id": 5778}, {"date_created": 1303947295.0202711, "user_id": 29458}], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1298575325.4556029, "message": "Also, you have to understand all aspects of the project. There is no price negotiation until you have a full understanding of what the project entails.", "group_id": 629, "id": 200691}, {"user_id": 2841, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1298575388.5059171, "message": "If you don't know what your time is worth, it is impossible to figure out a cost of a design.", "group_id": 629, "id": 200707}, {"user_id": 2841, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298575650.7144499, "user_id": 12525}], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1298575450.5943329, "message": "I would suggest getting a project planner completed first. I recently updated mine, so if you don't have one and haven't had the potential client fill one out yet they cannot expect a quote", "group_id": 629, "id": 200724}, {"user_id": 14885, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1298575066.7704699, "message": "per-project basis - how involved is the project?", "group_id": 629, "id": 200618}, {"user_id": 15683, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298575461.2970259, "user_id": 10694}], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1298575151.2207849, "message": "So far, the only information I've received is that it is custom website design with up to four drafts, plus HTMLization once the client approves", "group_id": 629, "id": 200643}, {"user_id": 2841, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1298575302.1131699, "message": "IT depends on your talent, skill, geographic location, what you figure your time is worth, etc.", "group_id": 629, "id": 200677}, {"user_id": 2841, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298576481.2391751, "user_id": 10694}], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1298575688.4313691, "message": "I should add... if they are not a family member I don't charge less than $2500 at this moment", "group_id": 629, "id": 200801}, {"user_id": 2841, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1298575703.7830949, "message": "and if they insist on a price quote BEFORE a project planner then I increase that", "group_id": 629, "id": 200808}, {"user_id": 15683, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1298575398.1577721, "message": "Ah, that makes sense.", "group_id": 629, "id": 200711}, {"user_id": 15683, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1298575642.5004849, "message": "I think the person is trying to get an idea before they actually commit. The project planner would definitely help us get on the same page. I have to admit, that everything you're saying is pretty much what I've been thinking. Your window seems pretty plausible. :)", "group_id": 629, "id": 200785}, {"user_id": 2841, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298575659.789763, "user_id": 12525}], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1298575474.6448829, "message": "if someone insists (like an uncle or something) I usually say anywhere from $1,000 to $25,000", "group_id": 629, "id": 200735}, {"user_id": 2841, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298587513.02405, "user_id": 5778}], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1298575714.5448899, "message": "they are already giving me signals that they are a cheap red flag client", "group_id": 629, "id": 200813}, {"user_id": 2841, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298576543.409585, "user_id": 10694}, {"date_created": 1298587579.189383, "user_id": 5778}], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1298575977.640198, "message": "A good pricing structure that works with most clients is 50% up front, then 25% once design is approved and development is to start and 25% at the end.", "group_id": 629, "id": 200961}, {"user_id": 12525, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1298575808.9791811, "message": "Or if you want to suss them out you could give an estimate say at $40 per hour, and say that the project will take say 100 hours, if they flinch then you offer to do a quote, if they're a time waster they will go waste someone else's time.", "group_id": 629, "id": 200863}, {"user_id": 14885, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1298575933.977071, "message": "@brunning <-- most important statement here", "group_id": 629, "id": 200926}, {"user_id": 15683, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1298575751.420857, "message": "Great! Thanks, everyone. I'll try to get more info and then hop right back into the discussion.", "group_id": 629, "id": 200837}, {"user_id": 11605, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1298575633.0819099, "message": "helps to check out what other local designers and small companies are charging.", "group_id": 629, "id": 200783}, {"user_id": 11605, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298575915.9510479, "user_id": 14885}, {"date_created": 1298576528.6421139, "user_id": 10694}, {"date_created": 1298587536.935148, "user_id": 5778}], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1298575903.3364451, "message": "and as always, get a deposit/down payment, get everything in writing, make sure everyone understands how many rounds of revisions are happening, what constitutes a round of revisions, and out-of-scope work will be billed at an hourly rate", "group_id": 629, "id": 200912}, {"user_id": 14885, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1298575641.921536, "message": "if this is your first project, I wouldn't worry about over-complicating things. just try to get an outline for the site requirements, and we can help you price from there.", "group_id": 629, "id": 200784}, {"user_id": 2841, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298576891.2088859, "user_id": 14885}, {"date_created": 1298578069.269352, "user_id": 12525}], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1298576727.086556, "message": "5? Make that 10 and now we're talking. :D", "group_id": 629, "id": 201190}, {"user_id": 11605, "stars": [{"date_created": 1303947374.5201001, "user_id": 29458}], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1298575967.780081, "message": "back in the day, i did far too many \"handshake\" jobs where i verbally agreed to as many revisions as it took to get it right, etc. cut to 6 months later....", "group_id": 629, "id": 200957}, {"user_id": 2841, "stars": [{"date_created": 1303947399.195585, "user_id": 29458}], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1298576031.179276, "message": "If it's an easy site, make sure whatever you charge that the first 25% covers the cost of what it would for you to send it to a PSD to HTML site. That way the rest of the cost of the site covers your design time and taxes", "group_id": 629, "id": 200977}, {"user_id": 2841, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1298576034.0047891, "message": ":)", "group_id": 629, "id": 200981}, {"user_id": 11605, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1298576116.1884, "message": "another good point there, assuming this is an above-the-board job, remember that you're going to lose 20-30% in taxes", "group_id": 629, "id": 201018}, {"user_id": 14885, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1298576899.941972, "message": "@nickgassmann facts.", "group_id": 629, "id": 201227}, {"user_id": 2841, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1298575913.4152761, "message": "If you lived in the Silicon Valley and were fresh out of school with a good portfolio I'd probably offer to pay you about $30-45/hr and charge $85-95 to the client :)", "group_id": 629, "id": 200915}, {"user_id": 11605, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1298576693.714401, "message": "large corporate clients, calculate your rate and multiply by 5 :)", "group_id": 629, "id": 201183}, {"user_id": 2841, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298576623.094043, "user_id": 10694}, {"date_created": 1298587624.7975481, "user_id": 5778}], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1298576449.1737421, "message": "Best way, IMO, to figure your \"per project\" price is to know how long it takes for you to do specific parts of the project. So if it takes 4 hours for you to come up with a unique design (including research, sketching, etc.) and you are asked to do up to four versions, the cost of the design portion of your quote will be 4 x 4 x $xx/hr. So in my case that would be around $700 to $1300 for just the 4 designs. (range depends on who the person is - family through redflag clients)", "group_id": 629, "id": 201080}, {"user_id": 12525, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1298584758.456459, "message": "Whatever you decide to follow this blog - http://www.no-spec.com/ - it will help!", "group_id": 629, "id": 202646}, {"user_id": 5778, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1298587749.043834, "message": "you all rock :)", "group_id": 629, "id": 203187}, {"user_id": 5778, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1298587743.156739, "message": "I'd just like to say that I really appreciate all of your suggestions.  I'm a developer, and I often do freelance websites that involve design work.  @chrystalbluedesign is my sister, and she was asking for my advice on pricing this kind of work.  I suggested she come here to ask for ideas from real designers, and I think we're both happy with the results.", "group_id": 629, "id": 203183}, {"user_id": 12525, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1298593732.1222179, "message": "lml>_<lml - Rock on @codekoala - Glad we could help", "group_id": 629, "id": 204419}, {"user_id": 15683, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1298660402.872561, "message": "Thank you so much for all your help, everyone!", "group_id": 629, "id": 210413}, {"user_id": 14885, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1298676529.2974169, "message": "@chrystalbluedesign any updates?", "group_id": 629, "id": 212036}, {"user_id": 15683, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1298700505.710983, "message": "Not as of yet, but I'm expecting something within the next few days.", "group_id": 629, "id": 212918}, {"user_id": 2841, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1298876639.1179409, "message": "Good luck!", "group_id": 629, "id": 223993}, {"user_id": 1797, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1299676390.7705679, "message": "and I second the $40/hr starting point. That's a good entry-level design-student rate, at least in Ohio where I am.", "group_id": 629, "id": 304219}, {"user_id": 1797, "stars": [{"date_created": 1299734814.0642869, "user_id": 5778}], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1299676120.7744601, "message": "@chrystalbluedesign I'm a little late to the game on this one, but getting everything in writing is really important (hat tip to @brunning). Most of us have learned that the hard way. A great place to start is Andy Clarke's _Contract Killer_. I used that as the starting point for my contract, and it has proven to be quite thorough. He's a little too snarky for what I'm comfortable with, but if you use it as a starting point, you at least won't forget anything big.  http://stuffandnonsense.co.uk/blog/about/contract_killer_the_next_hit", "group_id": 629, "id": 304184}, {"user_id": 5778, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1299736839.8356061, "message": "I know because I was a developer for the company for close to 3 years", "group_id": 629, "id": 311305}, {"user_id": 1797, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1299737111.612865, "message": "Yeah that's what I was getting at. But $14 AND a 1099?! That's rough.", "group_id": 629, "id": 311313}, {"user_id": 15683, "stars": [{"date_created": 1299735394.7709799, "user_id": 5778}], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1299735373.1160619, "message": "I just wanted to thank everyone again. Apparently, the project fell through, but they want to keep my resume on file so all of your help will come in handy! I have to admit that I was quite surprised to see $40/hr as an entry-level design-student rate. Most design jobs out here are paying about $14! I may be a student, but I know that my work is definitely worth more than $14/hr. :D", "group_id": 629, "id": 311179}, {"user_id": 5778, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1299735399.350076, "message": "@chrystalbluedesign sing it sista", "group_id": 629, "id": 311182}, {"user_id": 1797, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1299736630.6131639, "message": "Entry level design *jobs* are $14/hr, 40hrs/week. but you're typically not the one writing contracts, landing gigs, etc when you're working for somebody else. When freelancing, you need to keep the entire cost of doing business in mind. If you're billing 20 hours of client time, you're likely working at least 40.", "group_id": 629, "id": 311298}, {"user_id": 5778, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1299736784.6210411, "message": "@kaseykelly the problem with the company she is trying to get work from is that all \"employees\" are technically considered independent contractors, and therefore still have to pay self-employment taxes", "group_id": 629, "id": 311303}, {"user_id": 5778, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1299736998.630475, "message": "oh, and the work is sporadic at best... I struggled to get a full 40/hr week in the entire time I was working for the company", "group_id": 629, "id": 311309}, {"user_id": 5778, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1299737027.514235, "message": "when I got close to it, I was basically asked to take a little break because they wouldn't be able to compensate me if I kept going at the rate I was", "group_id": 629, "id": 311310}, {"user_id": 5778, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1299736912.5634429, "message": "$14/hr isn't that bad when you get a W2, but when you get that dirty 1099-MISC you're basically only getting minimum wage for a highly specialized skillset", "group_id": 629, "id": 311307}, {"user_id": 5778, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1299737135.6525481, "message": "@kaseykelly yup", "group_id": 629, "id": 311314}, {"user_id": 12525, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1299783232.8370161, "message": "Sorry to sound ignorant but what's a 1099-MISC? I charge out on Freelance work anywhere between $80-120 / hour, my boss charges me out at $250 / hour... so $14/hour seems so little... $40 / hour is definitely a good start rate, but if it's a small job always up the anti or quote it up, eg business card design probably only take a couple of hours, add on an extra 3 hours and then quote it", "group_id": 629, "id": 315507}, {"user_id": 5778, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1299816780.59389, "message": "@kaseykelly well said.", "group_id": 629, "id": 319256}, {"user_id": 1797, "stars": [{"date_created": 1299816775.37292, "user_id": 5778}], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1299816460.3661139, "message": "US tax stuff. 1099 MISC is to a freelancer what a W2 is to an employee. It's an acknowledgment from the client that \"I've paid you $X, and neither one of us has paid taxes on that.\" So you have to turn that in to the IRS, and then the IRS looks at it and says \"ok, now pay us X% of that.\"", "group_id": 629, "id": 319237}, {"user_id": 12525, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1300039874.484391, "message": "Oh Ow...", "group_id": 629, "id": 342135}, {"user_id": 17550, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1300124116.591825, "message": "Because you're a graphic design student, you should do it for free or make very little on it ($500-$800). More valuable as experience and portfolio piece. Good luck.", "group_id": 629, "id": 349441}, {"user_id": 12525, "stars": [{"date_created": 1300228977.911021, "user_id": 5778}], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1300213327.7114761, "message": "@derwinv I disagree, as a student yes you need to learn, but you pay money for the training, and you are still a designer whether or not a newbie, you still need to charge for work.", "group_id": 629, "id": 359154}, {"user_id": 218, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1300226209.6530781, "message": "I'm pretty sure its wrong on just one, albeit big, level.", "group_id": 629, "id": 360409}, {"user_id": 2841, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1300224786.270649, "message": "@derwinv That is the most rediculous piece of advice I've ever read. Sorry, but nobody's time, even a students, should not go without compensation. Little compensation just because they're a student? That's wrong on so many levels.", "group_id": 629, "id": 360284}, {"user_id": 1797, "stars": [{"date_created": 1300289113.3805389, "user_id": 5778}, {"date_created": 1300298680.9504969, "user_id": 12525}], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1300280835.015635, "message": "There is some merit in working for free on carefully-chosen projects, and the project in question isn't one of them.\u00a0That is a great way to build a portfolio with real clients. If you're going to work for free in order to build your portfolio, do it for a church, non-profit, local band, an art gallery... somebody who respects your time and would never *ask* for free work, but that you feel strongly about and genuinely want to donate your time to help in their marketing efforts. http://shouldiworkforfree.com/", "group_id": 629, "id": 365268}, {"user_id": 12525, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1300298882.9870069, "message": "I think pro bono work is good for the soul I do a bit of it, but generally the clients I pro bono for have at one time or another given me paid work so it's a tit for tat relationship. Or if they are really in need of help, I will offer to help them as far as I can, without doing all the work, eg act as an art / creative director helping out a junior designer (who is getting paid, just not what I would charge)... that sort of thing.", "group_id": 629, "id": 368111}, {"user_id": 17550, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1300300838.8168581, "message": "Azcreative and nickgassmann - Good point. When I was a student, I worked as an intern without pay in 2 advertising agencies. Eventually getting hired by one of them when I graduated. To each their own.", "group_id": 629, "id": 368481}, {"user_id": 29238, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1302688031.8547671, "message": "hello", "group_id": 629, "id": 662199}, {"user_id": 2694, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1303158224.676662, "message": "Spec work is for people who have no confidence in themselves or their ability o provide valuable results that functionally improve their clients' marketing, in the case of web design. If you can't price confidently, you probably should spend more time studying business, and talking personally with real successful professionals to learn how they dealt with the same problems. It's uncomfortable, but you can do it and you'll be happy that you did when you get the respect and money you deserve for providing a whole new level of competency to a business.", "group_id": 629, "id": 730548}, {"user_id": 2694, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1303158505.0990491, "message": "If you do pro-bono, free, \"spec work\" for anyone, it should be for people you decided you want to help, not for businesses that don't value design and only want something if they can get it out of you for free. I'd feel fine approaching a non-profit, but I'd never let a business set the precedent that I would even consider letting them profit from my work if I am receiving no compensation from them. If they don't understand how design professionals work, educate them, and if they don't actually value design (freebie seekers with no vision or foresight) then say no thanks and go pitch your ideas to their competition.", "group_id": 629, "id": 730642}, {"user_id": 26917, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1303224099.954283, "message": "I heard a quote once: If you price yourself like shit, you'll get treated like shit!", "group_id": 629, "id": 742383}, {"user_id": 30894, "stars": [], "topic_id": 8827, "date_created": 1303610374.5494659, "message": "Joseprooks  can you really educate, uneducated customers? Its a double edged sword, if the customer can't see the value then you educating them can backfire as they think you are trying to justify higher charges. Sometimes you have to walk away. Just like open source software cheapens the software business, pro bono/free/spec work can cheapen the design process.", "group_id": 629, "id": 792582}]