convore.json/groups/designers-and-open-source/django-frontend-designers-what-do-you-lovehate/messages.json

[{"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915624.7762649, "message": "that this would solve", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421129}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300921184.4934721, "message": "merging becomes easy", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421596}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300912412.094044, "message": "Onto complaint #2: Git", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420446}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300912474.6349549, "message": "but a \"patch\" for design work is a rough idea", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420458}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300912096.8998041, "message": "*oh pick me* Building projects up to a point they can be edited.  Git.  Finding hidden templates on the path, overriding static media, deploying design changes into production", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420401}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300912206.747756, "message": "as in, a better default project layout would be helpful in this regard?", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420416}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300912283.4169331, "message": "It's an ops issue, more or less, that as a developer/unix guy, it's pretty natural", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420431}, {"user_id": 24051, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300912471.27525, "message": "Drupal just switched to it.", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420457}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300912416.020406, "message": ".... ?", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420448}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300912549.0949991, "message": "There are good resources, if you're getting into it professionally, some \"git for designers\" type tutorials, but it's not really the level of tool that most designers expect (photoshop)", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420466}, {"user_id": 1797, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300912791.0213649, "message": "second that. one of the more impressive web designers in the industry (Andy Clarke) has some (comical) public frustrations about git via twitter. But... how's that relate to Django? Are you suggesting we get the design out of the core repo?", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420510}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300912231.700912, "message": "ah. PYTHONPATH", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420419}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300912448.92857, "message": "Again, it's just about barriers to entry.  Kasey is an outlier in the designers I know, that he _will_ pickup the command line, use git, etc", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420453}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300912491.656141, "message": "at least for binary work", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420459}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300913096.97188, "message": "rather than \"please submit a git patch\"", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420564}, {"user_id": 1797, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300911839.1869941, "message": "when @issackelly first showed me the ropes on the templating language, I thought 'this is how the web was meant to be built'", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420379}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300911970.051944, "message": "What, if anything, is annoying to you, then?", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420397}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300912179.58917, "message": "@issackelly let's break those down", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420412}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300912402.6688161, "message": "so mucking about is made less / not necessary", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420445}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300912220.8094211, "message": "no, like, \"Effing Python, how does it work\"", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420417}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300912252.06425, "message": "For kasey, I basically have a recipe of commands to run to get to the point where he can python manage.py runserver", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420422}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300912391.0801511, "message": "@issackelly ok, so it's still about having some more useful defaults, though", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420443}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300913084.049552, "message": "@kaseykelly I'm not suggesting that, and it wouldn't work, it's just one of the pain points to recognize, so, like maybe there could be something in use like django-loupe to get some of the iterating/review, and then \"this is how you take your design and make it a patch\"", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420563}, {"user_id": 1797, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300914936.7357769, "message": "heh \u2013 thanks for the link \u2013\u00a0I was about to google...", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420991}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300914475.1364419, "message": "I haven't gotten around to writing up my thoughts to the mailing list yet, so you guys get to be my sounding board.", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420866}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300911958.654264, "message": "Indeed -- the templating language is good. I no longer even have major bones to pick with it since smart-if.", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420395}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300912194.887589, "message": "\"building projects\" -- you mean taking it from startproject -> useful?", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420415}, {"user_id": 1797, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300912284.7373919, "message": "sorry, we're in the middle of an acorn-sized hailstorm. moving to the laptop downstairs \u2013 back in a few.", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420432}, {"user_id": 24051, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300912460.835212, "message": "Git makes me cry", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420454}, {"user_id": 24051, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300912823.8520019, "message": "So I had it all figured out for CVS using Eclipse and boom, have to start all over again", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420512}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300914530.7370181, "message": "The admin is a sophisticated CRUD", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420884}, {"user_id": 24051, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300912788.8039041, "message": "I insist on a GUI :)", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420509}, {"user_id": 1797, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300912865.8531771, "message": "yeah, I use a GUI too, but it still adds a couple of steps over a simple 'publish' on an FTP site. I see the huge advantages of version control though, so I deal. Still don't like it.", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420516}, {"user_id": 24051, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300912778.9062991, "message": "Personally, it took me months to fit all the puzzle pieces for version control, checkouts, diffs and patches together.", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420504}, {"user_id": 1797, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300913113.9202759, "message": "got it", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420569}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915018.807651, "message": "or really, a newspaper", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421005}, {"user_id": 1797, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300914235.9478991, "message": "my issue with the admin is that it's not easy to compartmentalize. On complicated projects, you've got a big row of apps on the home screen without a default way to group them. I don't know, maybe that exists, and we just don't do it. </limited knowledge>", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420807}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300914294.006906, "message": "well, there are ways (django-admin tools, rolling your own) they're not really trivial, they're not something a designer would normally be configuring", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420827}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915311.5048139, "message": "but an editor must send it live", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421075}, {"user_id": 1797, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915495.8767581, "message": "So, you'd define a \"task\" as a process that can span models?", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421101}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300914627.529094, "message": "but what we are missing from the admin is *tasks*", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420917}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300914457.7677469, "message": "re: the admin", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420857}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300914570.5686729, "message": "once again, my apologies.", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420899}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915592.9328301, "message": "yup", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421120}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300914758.615159, "message": "idan, are you talking about adding workflow tools?", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420946}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300914886.8332009, "message": "read: declarative syntax for most uses, but you can write code to provide fancier interaction if you need it", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420978}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300914924.3114021, "message": "part 2: the dashboard", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420987}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915092.291976, "message": "Right now, the admin has no concept of \"steps\" in accomplishing a task that is larger than a given model", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421021}, {"user_id": 24051, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915094.7299111, "message": "\"connecting the dots\", it will be a big focus for Drupal UX work as well.", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421022}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915106.690949, "message": "but not always", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421024}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915111.9464591, "message": "And not in any \"guided\" fashion", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421026}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915216.480875, "message": "yup.  I got it.  I wasn't sure if you were trying to mean that, or \"when I'm done writing my draft, it goes to an editor for approval\"", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421057}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300914610.660183, "message": "The CRUD aspect of the admin should and will not go away", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420911}, {"user_id": 1797, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300914418.71668, "message": "yeah, and maybe I want more control than most care about. We've always had a goal with our tools of 'hide the extra stuff from the client'", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420849}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300914432.9469831, "message": "well, that's a bigger question of if the admin is suitable for end users or not", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420852}, {"user_id": 1797, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300914477.928072, "message": "and maybe that's all I'm getting at. Is it too hard for me to navigate? Of course not.", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420868}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300914548.8450379, "message": "it is awesome, and I love it, but at the end of the day it is a fancy CRUD interface.", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420890}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300914504.9558849, "message": "Just reorganizing the app index page is aiming too low", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420879}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915327.528203, "message": "And so we come full circle to the idea of the dashboard", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421078}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915618.97855, "message": "I think you're right on.  I've made several \"dashboards\" that are single-purpose admin areas", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421125}, {"user_id": 1797, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300914356.579644, "message": " I just find myself giving clients a handful of admin URLs when telling them how to do specific things, instead of just \"hey, the admin's easy \u2013 go forth.\" On the other hand, we could limit client permissions, and then extra apps don't show up. ", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420838}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300914445.816771, "message": "I think I know somebody working on that ......", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420853}, {"user_id": 24051, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300914578.819526, "message": "hehe", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420902}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300914825.753155, "message": "The admin sucks at expressing this sort of behavior", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420958}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300914971.0647359, "message": "I'd like to see something extensible and configurable", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421000}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915062.449343, "message": "those need to be created and then related to an existing story", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421015}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915103.796685, "message": "You can sorta-kinda fake it with inlines, sometime", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421023}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300914502.7073281, "message": "@idan, we're trying to setup conventions for a subclassed AdminSite for end users", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420878}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300914584.4093239, "message": "that's ok, I never know how verbose to be :)", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420905}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300914938.8614931, "message": "so, imagining a future with both task-based admin and CRUD operations", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420992}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915138.011863, "message": "Tasks cut across \"model\" definitions", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421030}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915143.1953809, "message": "They cut across applications", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421031}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915156.2882299, "message": "They link things together by intent and meaning, not taxonomy", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421035}, {"user_id": 24051, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915173.1205831, "message": "we made stuff more findable in the /admin, but still only as loose pieces of functionality", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421038}, {"user_id": 24051, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915205.642221, "message": "next step is tying activities and tasks together towards user goals", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421051}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915250.514766, "message": "that sort of workflow, automatic assignment stuff", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421065}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300914533.0804369, "message": "To that end, I'm all about being part of the conversation about the admin", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420885}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300914558.3458309, "message": "(for designers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Create,_read,_update_and_delete)", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420892}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300914959.4121511, "message": "the landing page should be more usfeul as a gateway to both", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420999}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300914977.4118619, "message": "I'd really like an example of what you're calling a task based admin", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421001}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300914861.485894, "message": "It needs to be definable and extensible in a lot of the ways that the admin is now", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420966}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300914987.1017931, "message": "not necessiarly django land", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421003}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915027.256505, "message": "yes", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421008}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915126.7205839, "message": "I've done a ton of client work, and this is a pitfall, every time.", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421029}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300914667.6050849, "message": "Most times when using the admin, we are accomplishing some goals. \"To create a thingie, first do this, and then do that\"", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420926}, {"user_id": 24051, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300914674.3039119, "message": "I hear CRAP is all the rage these days? :)", "group_id": 7471, "id": 420929}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915049.2203121, "message": "You create the article model, but then you also have related media: slideshows, and audio recordings, and whatnot", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421013}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915507.6715341, "message": "So, to take that workflow example: it should be easy to define some display based on a query", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421107}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915576.5351391, "message": "@kaseykelly yes.", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421118}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915585.8394401, "message": "a glorified wizard.", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421119}, {"user_id": 1797, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915617.5997469, "message": "I dig it.", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421123}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915002.5090899, "message": "@issackelly so, say you are running a blog.", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421004}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915198.9868121, "message": "Right, search is not a panacea :)", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421047}, {"user_id": 24051, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915259.252423, "message": "yeah, power users rely on control-F to find what they are looking for an admin index pages :(", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421067}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915280.2971399, "message": "@issackelly it might mean that -- part of tasks is the ability to display some intermediate messages based on some logic", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421069}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915334.3569181, "message": "and widgets", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421080}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915448.4943271, "message": "I think it's a great start at an idea.", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421091}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915525.539762, "message": "like \"List of articles which are correctly configured and populated and ready to publish\"", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421110}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915028.5145891, "message": "To run a given story, you have a series of steps you need to take", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421009}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915301.0775809, "message": "so for example, after you create the post and attach the media, it's the newspaper equivalent of \"ready for checkin\" :)", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421073}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915536.405268, "message": "That might be a useful display on the dashboard.", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421112}, {"user_id": 24051, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300921159.68453, "message": "yeah, the local repo is cool", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421590}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300915355.1346509, "message": "The ability to display some useful information in a standardized way", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421081}, {"user_id": 24051, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300921161.226758, "message": "right", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421591}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300917749.460922, "message": "Thanks all for your feedback. Please feel free to add thoughts (and new topics) as they come to you; this is very helpful for me.", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421304}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300921145.5159471, "message": "but it does require wrapping your head around a different way of thinking, and that is difficult regardless of topic", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421585}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300921179.608722, "message": "The key thing with git or any distributed version control (Mercurial, etc) is the lightweight collaboration", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421595}, {"user_id": 24051, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300920975.3814111, "message": "Not 20 years ago for me :)", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421554}, {"user_id": 1883, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300920665.4340119, "message": "@yoroy CVS is a 20 year-old tool.  Surely learning a new tool that often is OK?", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421506}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300921014.244663, "message": "@jdunck by that argument, I should ditch vim too :)", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421564}, {"user_id": 24051, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300921083.8244359, "message": "I will learn eventually. It just seems that git is beneficial to mostly (very) advanced use cases", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421573}, {"user_id": 24051, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300921285.177767, "message": "I never understood branching anyway and I'm whining so I'll stop :)", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421621}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300921118.4448099, "message": "@yoroy that actually isn't true at all -- git is beneficial for most use cases", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421580}, {"user_id": 24051, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300921119.8632841, "message": "While at the same time using different words for the main concepts/simple use cases.", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421581}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300921192.0783269, "message": "so branching becomes cheap and ubiquitous", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421599}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300921217.564126, "message": "and it encourages experimentation, because you know that you'll have an easier time *sharing* your output down the road", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421604}, {"user_id": 24051, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300921259.8210289, "message": "yeahyeahyeah I know :)", "group_id": 7471, "id": 421616}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 14793, "date_created": 1300926837.9939921, "message": "@yoroy I didn't either, until I read pro git.  It's such an easy introduction, and it was free online.  Really, really invaluable", "group_id": 7471, "id": 422139}]