convore.json/groups/django-community/django-apps-and-packaging/messages.json

[{"user_id": 7129, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300194035.898587, "message": "I think a lot of people use these apps as embedded code copies.", "group_id": 81, "id": 355472}, {"user_id": 5863, "stars": [{"date_created": 1300501901.968679, "user_id": 141}], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300192604.206388, "message": "I'm really interested in why people don't include a setup.py file in what seems like lots of django apps? Are their any good reasons not to or is it just an education issue?", "group_id": 81, "id": 355207}, {"user_id": 5863, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300194739.146873, "message": "Yeah, but why? Surely the small amount of time spent learning to use pip hugely outweighs the time taken manually copying files round or dealing with submodules or externals or just vendoring everything?", "group_id": 81, "id": 355567}, {"user_id": 7129, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300194050.0812111, "message": "Besides, adding a setup.py might be helpful to the sysadmin.. ;)", "group_id": 81, "id": 355475}, {"user_id": 5863, "stars": [{"date_created": 1300195627.702383, "user_id": 2045}, {"date_created": 1300196389.3451591, "user_id": 5367}, {"date_created": 1300501939.004318, "user_id": 141}, {"date_created": 1301497114.314945, "user_id": 19655}], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300195605.6901219, "message": "I'll then try and get things pushed back upstream so I don't have to maintain my fork, but if not at least I can just pull in new changes", "group_id": 81, "id": 355705}, {"user_id": 4077, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300195057.8798649, "message": "From my perspective, even if I pip install an app, I almost always end up monkey patching it to add something to it.  In general, I usually copy the ~/env/bin/python-2.6/site-packages/whatever into ~/env/project whenever I do that so that at the very least, it's less to type when I'm making edits.", "group_id": 81, "id": 355594}, {"user_id": 7129, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300195406.6312129, "message": "@bmelton By \"monkey patching\" don't you mean plain editing? But yeah, thats a common use-case for not using a package manager. Are you using stgit or just editing them?", "group_id": 81, "id": 355637}, {"user_id": 7129, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300195436.50086, "message": "@garethr You would think so, but people also like compiling their own version of *everything* in their software stack. Which just seems utterly bizarre in 2011. ^_^", "group_id": 81, "id": 355647}, {"user_id": 4077, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300195490.338614, "message": "@lamby yeah, just editing.  I mean, it's all in a virtualenv generally, but no, I generally just pull them into the project path and start editing.", "group_id": 81, "id": 355666}, {"user_id": 5863, "stars": [{"date_created": 1300195626.413152, "user_id": 2045}, {"date_created": 1300200049.67325, "user_id": 13524}, {"date_created": 1300210107.626184, "user_id": 1296}, {"date_created": 1300223625.58218, "user_id": 1822}, {"date_created": 1300695640.6898501, "user_id": 22279}, {"date_created": 1301468072.682379, "user_id": 209}], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300195571.9543841, "message": "If I absolutely have to edit a project I'll fork it, make changes and then pull that in using pip ala https://github.com/garethr/django-mobileadmin", "group_id": 81, "id": 355696}, {"user_id": 2045, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300195726.7173989, "message": "I think it's only appropriate to at least offer your changes back to the upstream, assuming you can open source your work.", "group_id": 81, "id": 355725}, {"user_id": 5367, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300196377.774117, "message": "@garethr yeap that's the only viable solution for me as well", "group_id": 81, "id": 355854}, {"user_id": 275, "stars": [{"date_created": 1301563032.2638669, "user_id": 6648}], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300201010.573849, "message": "I fork everything and install via `pip install -e <my fork>`. I've contributed some of my changes back upstream as well - seems the polite thing to do.", "group_id": 81, "id": 356902}, {"user_id": 2045, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300201972.3901269, "message": "@garethr You can install via tarballs, but that doesn't help with internet access.", "group_id": 81, "id": 357130}, {"user_id": 5863, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300201550.4675219, "message": "I hate to mention the R word but in Ruby everything but everything is available as a gem.", "group_id": 81, "id": 357021}, {"user_id": 5863, "stars": [{"date_created": 1300501950.9529121, "user_id": 141}], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300201485.1169059, "message": "the only thing I don't like about -e is it requires installing version control systems on production environments and giving them access to the internet. Depends how I'm feeling and how much time I have to deal with it differently", "group_id": 81, "id": 357004}, {"user_id": 213, "stars": [{"date_created": 1300501986.2127111, "user_id": 141}], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300204215.468071, "message": "personally I'm violently in favor of getting rid of distutils/setuptools in favor of distutils2, but it might take another year or two to make this happen", "group_id": 81, "id": 357629}, {"user_id": 216, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300202433.708498, "message": "@garethr Gems typically still require Internet access (unless of course you package them with your app, in which case it's no different than Python imo)", "group_id": 81, "id": 357263}, {"user_id": 213, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300204148.33938, "message": "the issue with packaging is usually the awful little differences between distutils/setuptools, especially when it comes to non-python files bundling. can't remember how many manifest.in I created over the last couple of years", "group_id": 81, "id": 357609}, {"user_id": 5863, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300203105.8512681, "message": "@asenchi I got slightly off track. It's not the mechanism that's really all the different, just that virtually all Ruby software is available as a Gem, lots of Django apps don't even have a setup.py and I'm interested in why (and maybe even how to encourage more people to do)", "group_id": 81, "id": 357386}, {"user_id": 5863, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300203160.9329751, "message": "@joshbohde yeah, Chishop is great. I've done that in the past. Other times I've used checkinstall to create debs and pushed those out", "group_id": 81, "id": 357393}, {"user_id": 5863, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300203040.48317, "message": "@joshbohde yeah, that's what I do sometimes", "group_id": 81, "id": 357368}, {"user_id": 2045, "stars": [{"date_created": 1300695660.9941061, "user_id": 22279}], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300203071.651866, "message": "@garethr If you want to get past the internet requirement, you can pip to a directory of stored packages, or setup a personal PyPI using Chishop (https://github.com/ask/chishop) for your local network.", "group_id": 81, "id": 357377}, {"user_id": 216, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300203152.2669489, "message": "@garethr I think mostly b/c distutils/setuptools confuses most people. :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 357392}, {"user_id": 216, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300203216.0264111, "message": "Perhaps distutils2 will help clear up the packaging situation for Python. Pip is doing a great job of it though imo", "group_id": 81, "id": 357401}, {"user_id": 281, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300205259.2255051, "message": "@garethr a lot of stuff  out there around recurring payment APIs is pretty half-baked.  I think it's an area which often falls into the \"works good enough for me\" category", "group_id": 81, "id": 357844}, {"user_id": 281, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300205381.345144, "message": "for the service I was using (cheddargetter.com) the python library was so bad I actually ended up writing my own https://github.com/saaspire/sharpy", "group_id": 81, "id": 357860}, {"user_id": 205, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300205086.06375, "message": "Most of the django apps I use are packaged correctly", "group_id": 81, "id": 357810}, {"user_id": 5863, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300203740.5261929, "message": "@asenchi pip works great now, especially with virtualenv. A simple setup.py is easy to write too. Maybe that's just me?", "group_id": 81, "id": 357499}, {"user_id": 281, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300205403.6469929, "message": "the docs still need a bit of work but the code is pretty solid and well tested at this point", "group_id": 81, "id": 357865}, {"user_id": 281, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300205417.44172, "message": "and we've been happy with CheddarGetter's service", "group_id": 81, "id": 357868}, {"user_id": 5863, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300204963.680624, "message": "Yeah, it gets complicated if you're doing things like that, but most pluggable django apps I see are just files on disk that wan't to be on the python path", "group_id": 81, "id": 357785}, {"user_id": 205, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300205128.6923289, "message": "so it might be partially self-selecting, but it has gotten better", "group_id": 81, "id": 357820}, {"user_id": 5863, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300205166.3247111, "message": "Maybe it was just last night :) I spent a bit of time looking around for different apps, mainly to do with payment gateways and the some of the recurring payment apis", "group_id": 81, "id": 357826}, {"user_id": 213, "stars": [{"date_created": 1300204111.3135431, "user_id": 7129}], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300204076.7895999, "message": "@garethr Pulled your changes btw :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 357599}, {"user_id": 5863, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300205004.89112, "message": "@jezdez cheers, I reasoned a pull request was better than a bug report for the sake of 2 lines of code", "group_id": 81, "id": 357793}, {"user_id": 205, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300205246.8685181, "message": "A year or 2 ago, almost nothing in Django was on pypi or using setup.py, @jezdez has done a great job of enlightening (and fixing) people and projects", "group_id": 81, "id": 357842}, {"user_id": 5863, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300205302.485965, "message": "@ericholscher it did feel like it used to be worse. I've not done any Django for 5 months until recently and found some nice new apps or improvements to things I'd been using previously", "group_id": 81, "id": 357846}, {"user_id": 5863, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300205363.5457001, "message": "@SeanOC mmm, yeah. That was my fear/frustration. I'd quite like to use one, not write one :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 357859}, {"user_id": 281, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300205929.296037, "message": "@garethr :) feel free to give me a ping if you end up having any questions or problems with Sharpy", "group_id": 81, "id": 357959}, {"user_id": 205, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300205115.322171, "message": "It used to be a lot worse, but just about all the worthwhile apps are packaged right. If they aren't packaged, I tend to not use them, because I assume other parts of the code aren't well done either", "group_id": 81, "id": 357814}, {"user_id": 5863, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300205657.0819111, "message": "@SeanOC oooh, that looks to be exactly what I was looking for. If I'd found that I wouldn't have had to complain on the internet", "group_id": 81, "id": 357900}, {"user_id": 5177, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300441532.2983711, "message": "Is there a good article / tutorial about the best way to package django apps for pypi? Was fixing some install issues I had with django-favorites that required distutils knowledge but found the docs a bit hard to navigate.", "group_id": 81, "id": 380958}, {"user_id": 3354, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300456392.214227, "message": "Think about submitting to DjangoPackages as well, if you haven't already", "group_id": 81, "id": 382049}, {"user_id": 1822, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300469080.463841, "message": "I've started on a paster project that tries to embrace and extend the best of two projects:\nhttp://pypi.python.org/pypi/fez.djangoskel/\nhttp://pypi.python.org/pypi/modern-package-template", "group_id": 81, "id": 383966}, {"user_id": 1822, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300469124.5200989, "message": "the first has some good app layout stuff, but is geared towards eggs, while the second is a good  clean modern package layout", "group_id": 81, "id": 383981}, {"user_id": 1822, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300469138.3711159, "message": "I'm happy to put up on github if someone wants to help finish it up", "group_id": 81, "id": 383985}, {"user_id": 11405, "stars": [{"date_created": 1300695689.573566, "user_id": 22279}], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1300604325.5435359, "message": "Recently I stumbled upon the same question and came up with this: https://github.com/bitmazk/django-reusable-app-boilerplate As I am far from being a pro when it comes to reusable apps and packaging, any feedback would be much appreciated :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 390888}, {"user_id": 1822, "stars": [{"date_created": 1301470623.924443, "user_id": 23244}, {"date_created": 1301497412.9045811, "user_id": 2588}, {"date_created": 1301572765.6900699, "user_id": 13912}], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1301466677.860908, "message": "OK, I've gotten back around to this, and have something working that I think is a good start here: https://github.com/ptone/django-packagemaker\nfeedback welcome", "group_id": 81, "id": 478729}, {"user_id": 25337, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1301476981.845186, "message": "It does have an agenda, of course - it was always annoying coming across a 'reusable' app that wasn't packaged properly, so didn't play well with buildout (or more recently, pip). So I wanted to push people towards packaging by default.", "group_id": 81, "id": 480234}, {"user_id": 25337, "stars": [{"date_created": 1301500002.5754659, "user_id": 25106}], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1301477033.200633, "message": "Things are a lot different these days - with things like github making it easy for people to accept changes, and @jezdez tirelessly adding setup.py files to peoples' repositories :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 480251}, {"user_id": 25337, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1301476837.9482679, "message": "@ptone fez.djangoskel is mine - and it's horrendously out of date :) I'm going to update it now 1.3's out the door.", "group_id": 81, "id": 480209}, {"user_id": 1822, "stars": [], "topic_id": 13161, "date_created": 1301526706.714534, "message": "@danfairs fez always looked comprehensive, just didn't like the egg focus, and a bit put off by the fez namespacing.  Look forward to seeing the revision, with the more complete project stuff in there, it will quickly eclipse my project ;-)", "group_id": 81, "id": 485727}]