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Kenneth Reitz
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[{"user_id": 31403, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305830017.973367, "message": "I'd say it depends on their importance to the conference (keynote/regular/lightning talk) and the amount of money available. It's also a balancing act between heavy sponsorship and/or expensive tickets on the one side and accomodating speakers on the other.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1114654}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305836889.609271, "message": "No", "group_id": 81, "id": 1115888}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [{"date_created": 1305846632.0755301, "user_id": 960}, {"date_created": 1306101256.7733951, "user_id": 6396}, {"date_created": 1306865072.460835, "user_id": 12716}], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305837355.6830349, "message": "You _get_ a lot out of speaking too. People talked about Disqus for months, and constantly refer to you talk as almost cannonical django advise", "group_id": 81, "id": 1116014}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305837387.1865749, "message": "Advice*", "group_id": 81, "id": 1116026}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305838092.9163251, "message": "On the other hand, you need attendees to have a conference as well.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1116228}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [{"date_created": 1305846620.18911, "user_id": 960}, {"date_created": 1305899561.268465, "user_id": 8291}, {"date_created": 1306840845.687242, "user_id": 28005}], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305837066.7572811, "message": "Because you have no conference, without any speakers", "group_id": 81, "id": 1115931}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305837062.4054551, "message": "Yes, they should", "group_id": 81, "id": 1115927}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305837080.9416871, "message": "(I feel the same about any conference)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1115933}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305838324.0550301, "message": "Has presentation quality been a problem @ DjangoCon? Last year was my first year, and I really enjoyed it.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1116297}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305838684.3387129, "message": "Totally agree with your point though - I'd want to know that if people are paying a higher entrance fee in order to compensate for subsidizing speakers that they're going to be wow'ed by most of what they see", "group_id": 81, "id": 1116389}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305838261.4685781, "message": "If people are being asked to pay more, shouldn't that translate into higher quality presentations?", "group_id": 81, "id": 1116276}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305838128.1309519, "message": "Paying for speakers means raising ticket prices", "group_id": 81, "id": 1116239}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305838135.685787, "message": "Yeah, DjangoCon is very particular about trying to keep costs low", "group_id": 81, "id": 1116241}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305838351.2281921, "message": "Depends who you ask ;)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1116305}, {"user_id": 209, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305838388.303736, "message": "Well, the root of your question I guess, is \"Would presenters put more work if they were paid\" or \"would better presenters show up if they were paid\" Which I think are both interesting questions", "group_id": 81, "id": 1116314}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305838488.8399429, "message": "There were some good talks last year. I also missed a bunch trying to help out in other areas and/or prepping my own talks - at least one of which didn't meet my own high expectations :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1116340}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305838638.3852479, "message": "I've definitely sat through a number that were more like rehashes of blog posts. I'm probably not the target audience though and that's OK.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1116376}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305841493.0523951, "message": "Speaking as somebody who has been involved in putting on four djangocons, I think it's a matter of the kind of conference we want to hold.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1116960}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305841520.4323511, "message": "\"Speakers don't pay\" doesn't work when you have a conference with a lot of talks.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1116966}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305841658.8586791, "message": "and yes, @zeeg, I do realize that -- c.f. https://twitter.com/idangazit/status/71257109290954752", "group_id": 81, "id": 1116983}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305841729.6418619, "message": "Honestly, don't remember offhand. But that sounds about right.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1116998}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305841742.265321, "message": "I attended what was arguably one of the best conferences I've been too in SF for $100/person, it was a 2 day event hosted in the heart of the city", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117001}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305841789.412802, "message": "Then they must have had a ton of sponsorship", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117015}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305841041.2637129, "message": "How much money was left over? Could we cut costs some where else? I particular didn't enjoy attending PyCon either, and still forking over tons of cash even though we gave a mini-keynote. (That's not DjangoCon, but just some perspective where we come from on this)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1116877}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305843133.0795009, "message": "Longer format talks, deeply technical, vetted great speakers", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117260}, {"user_id": 218, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305841923.517993, "message": "@idan Simplicity, yes. There's also a concept of equalness.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117056}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305841962.365942, "message": "not being rhetorical, want your feedback in the context of this convo.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117070}, {"user_id": 218, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305842619.523083, "message": "@idan I'm not sure I count that as a vote in favor though. There are some people who I would love to see speak, but make their living as speakers (Merlin Mann, specifically comes to mind).", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117208}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305841622.3963399, "message": "Making the conference very easy for speakers to attend is a different thing", "group_id": 81, "id": 1116978}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305841717.4364851, "message": "what was it last year, 400 or so?", "group_id": 81, "id": 1116997}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305841788.6610329, "message": "EuroPython at least gave speakers 100EURO discount on tickets, which for me put the cost (at least for conf pass) down to $75", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117014}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [{"date_created": 1306243189.533787, "user_id": 927}], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305841090.1517291, "message": "I definitely dont think speakers should be paid to come, I just feel like the conference could do something better to actually attract speakers. Whether its completely free entry, or extremely reduced. It'd be a huge step up, and more attractive to a few people I've talked to.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1116889}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305841680.785085, "message": "And how much were tickets to those confs?", "group_id": 81, "id": 1116987}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305841689.2370601, "message": "For everybody who *wasn't* speaking?", "group_id": 81, "id": 1116989}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305841809.2422061, "message": "Which is not always easy to secure.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117019}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305841945.6726489, "message": "@zeeg: out of curiosity, how do you feel about the talk lineup for dc.eu this year?", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117064}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305841574.1406441, "message": "If we have 20 talks, and our whole conference is only 150 people, then it raises ticket prices significantly for everybody.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1116973}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305841601.5816641, "message": "And in truth, I don't see how making the conference free for speakers really improves their talks.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1116975}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305841608.7511289, "message": "@idan You realize a lot of the very well attended conferences not only dont charge admission, but they will also cover hotel and flight expenses?", "group_id": 81, "id": 1116976}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305841650.12765, "message": "take the JavaScript world (Disqus speaks heavily at JS confs and Python confs) -- almost every one attended covers a large amount, if not all, of our attendance", "group_id": 81, "id": 1116982}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305841701.9072981, "message": "I feel like it would be more attractive for people to submit talks if they knew it was going to be more than an ego boost (so it would be beneficial for them to submit a quality talk that gets accepted to lower attendance cost)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1116990}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305841709.9314561, "message": "Some of them more than DjangoCon, some about the same", "group_id": 81, "id": 1116993}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305841712.849905, "message": "DjangoCon isn't \"cheap\" at all", "group_id": 81, "id": 1116995}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [{"date_created": 1305842172.666297, "user_id": 1127}], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305842162.7951231, "message": "@zeeg : I was involved in talk selection for dc.eu this year, and \"product pitches\" were generally downvoted. Not entirely, but most were rejected.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117114}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305842163.4722309, "message": "I think (but can't speak for) dc.us will probably do the same this year.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117117}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305841749.3050449, "message": "That conf was PGWest", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117004}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305841820.9334879, "message": "and this will be my first one", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117022}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305841843.220432, "message": "But all of this is immaterial: I agree that making it attractive for speakers to speak is a good idea, but only if it's the whole 9 yards", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117034}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305841860.3856189, "message": "otherwise, just seems like it changes the conference from \"community\" to something else.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117039}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305841757.1253009, "message": "it was a bit smaller than DjangoCon, but still on the same scale", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117007}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305841871.2025781, "message": "And there's a cognitive simplicity to \"everybody pays to attend\".", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117042}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305841908.8000369, "message": "Well, that's eomthing that needs remedying.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117051}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305841910.1010151, "message": "and I wouldn't care so much about the cost (and speakers paying) if it wasnt one of the pricier conferences, yet still in an out of the way venue", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117053}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305841763.6734509, "message": "I also am not privy to the balance sheet from DC.us, but I've seen them for dc.eu and it's not exactly a moneymaking enterprise.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117010}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305841813.5100329, "message": "To be honest, EuroPython seems very well organized, but I'm not sure how well thats working out financially", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117021}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305842161.1111469, "message": "@justinlilly yeah.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117111}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305842236.9238811, "message": "There's one thing I don't like about conferences, and that's the Douglas Crockford / Steve Souders type talks. Don't need the same thing every single year at the same conference", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117135}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305841890.952929, "message": "I'm also not the typical audience, but I wasn't very happy w/ the selection of talks last year either. Just lots of uninteresting talks/product pitches (but that seems to happen at a majority of confs)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117048}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305842019.6723759, "message": "@idan single track, looked fun, couldnt justify the expense of speaking at it so I'm just attending EuroPy now", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117085}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305841928.969516, "message": "(we dont tend to go to things like Web 2.0 Expo / <insert any corporate overpriced conf here>", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117058}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305842244.2828391, "message": "And I've seen some of that repeated at PyCon/DjangoCon -- gets old", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117138}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305842248.115411, "message": "but thats kind of unrelated as well", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117139}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305842254.481303, "message": "(those are also usually product pitches)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117143}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305842355.4664371, "message": "Hokay. Time for sleep. Thanks for the discussion.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117162}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305842480.6466, "message": "There is probably a fairly distinct dividing line between the types of attendees at something like a DjangoCon: those who are new to Django and are there to learn and be inspired and those who are pros, have already been to a few, and are there to socialize as much as anything else.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117180}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305842569.9828, "message": "It's probably fair to say that those of us in the second category are bored during a majority of the content. Are there other ways to incentivize speakers?", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117198}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305842891.3662081, "message": "Right, it's likely the case that most people who submit talks to DC have already decided they're going", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117238}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305843283.6886799, "message": "Because as much as I don't want to see another \"testing Django\" or \"Django gotchas\" (with no disrespect to those invididuals) they still have an important place.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117275}, {"user_id": 218, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305842718.779067, "message": "not sure if that has bearing w/r/t DC. I would expect that if the talks were paid, you would have more talks in general.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117227}, {"user_id": 218, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305842719.138473, "message": "or more proposals, rather. I would also imagine that based on that, the level of the talk would be higher.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117228}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305843268.6208169, "message": "@unbracketed beginner talks can be just as amazing / valuable though -- I feel like if its something that is greatly sought after (and I wish every talk was), the cost can be justified", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117274}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305843002.0546679, "message": "I have the same feeling as justinlilly -- it's not so much that bad talks would just get covered, it's that there might be more quality talks that could be accepted", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117248}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305843115.392925, "message": "I've been desperately hoping for some sort of advanced track to emerge", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117258}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305843186.1126189, "message": "Maybe a compromise is to provide some sort of compensation for those who are selected for those slots only?", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117267}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305843356.7595339, "message": "@zeeg I totally agree, but also think there is a larger pool to draw from who can give those types of talks successfully", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117283}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305844439.0567329, "message": "I understand the attraction to being able to have a wide array of topics available but I often feel like the 40 minute slots force most presentations to end up either way too high-level to be meaningful or result in too many \"well I'll have to skip ahead 20 slides now because we're short on time\".", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117575}, {"user_id": 960, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305846658.942661, "message": "@issackelly Dude... keeping costs low? Last year's DjangoCon cost more than PyCon.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117706}, {"user_id": 960, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305846865.3532879, "message": "I'm +1 on helping speakers out. Last year I spoke at conferences that let me in for free and paid my way and hotel. $2k/week (not including lost wages/vacation time) can be tough.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117720}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305847553.6744709, "message": "@tswicegood it's my understanding that some speakers at EuroPython actually donated their \"discount\" because it wasnt needed", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117791}, {"user_id": 960, "stars": [{"date_created": 1305847540.1677229, "user_id": 1127}], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305846926.8131931, "message": "I get the reasons behind not doing, but I'd still say leave that up to the speaker. I'm sure there are plenty of speakers that would donate their free slot to a scholarship fund to help get others there.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117730}, {"user_id": 960, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305847841.299063, "message": "@zeeg Awesome.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1117831}, {"user_id": 7, "stars": [{"date_created": 1306101589.327112, "user_id": 6396}], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305851872.332794, "message": "As someone who speaks at just about every conference I attend, it'd be hugely to my advantage not to pay for that stuff, but so long as the conference is run by the community I won't ask for it, because it's not right to all the volunteers who put it together in other capacities, or the attendees who's ticket prices would increase as a result", "group_id": 81, "id": 1118193}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305853484.999167, "message": "If most of the talks are mind-blowing, attendees will leave more satisfied, generate a lot of buzz, and probably lead to potential for increased attendance next year.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1118477}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305853545.2021949, "message": "As well, the presentation videos will see more traffic which means more attention to the technology and the community at-large, as well as more exposure for the sponsors since the logos are usually featured in the videos", "group_id": 81, "id": 1118485}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305853715.3379891, "message": "...and it is debatable how accurate it is to say that DjangoCon is run by the community.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1118500}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305853440.3016109, "message": "@alex I admire your graciousness and do agree with you somewhat on a personal level. However, this brings us back to whether paid speakers translates to a better conference ...and what value that brings in overall.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1118470}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305870059.2132471, "message": "Pardon me, but all of the whining here about speakers and tickets is, frankly, a little bit annoying to those who put together conferences. I don't think you appreciate the difficulty of running a show when you have zero financial backing. We have to sign contracts with venues and service providers when we have _no money_ in the bank, and nobody to back us if attendance is low.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1120971}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305870386.3147449, "message": "Come help put on a djangocon, I mean *really* help -- and then see how you feel about it.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121033}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305869910.574887, "message": "@unbracketed I think it's very fair to say that Djangocon is run by the community; don't conflate that with some communist idea that a conference can be built by many hands without any centralized direction. Putting on a conference is an incredible draining task. At the end of one, the organizers are *burnt out*. And they don't see a dime from it -- surpluses are rolled over into next year's conference budget.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1120938}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305870092.8056841, "message": "The organizers face a HUGE ton of risk when putting on a conference, and they waste a HUGE ton of time dealing with bureaucracy to mitigate (but not eliminate) that risk.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1120985}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305870284.6902821, "message": "I'd love to be able to pay speakers' ways, but that makes it a very different kind of conference\u2014one more concerned with money, and I guarantee that this will put the conference out of reach for most of the \"community\", e.g. people not being sent by their employers.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121020}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305870352.1033421, "message": "Otherwise, I think I'd find the griping a little more tolerable if it came from somebody with some actual skin in the game.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121029}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305872414.0820091, "message": "Understanding what the challenges are in putting together a conference is one part of helping form a discussion that will hopefully inform others.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121372}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305872713.6546431, "message": "I put together a few talks last year, volunteered to chair a session, and tried to be active in meeting and talking to as many attendees as I could during the non-session hours last year. That may be pittance to what you contributed, but please don't be so quick to be dismissive of others just because they don't have as high profile a role.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121404}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305870329.3854079, "message": "If anything, I think a reasonable idea is giving keynote speakers a break, since that's a limited set and the conference could absorb that cost.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121026}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305870203.8222411, "message": "So with all due respect, bitching about speakers paying for tickets to a conference that is barely sponsored and put on by volunteers on the nights and weekends is, frankly, not so fun for those of us who put in that effort.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121004}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305873226.1357689, "message": "@unbracketed I'm not against having a conversation, you're misunderstood my annoyance.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121482}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305873004.5201421, "message": "I've worked just as hard as anyone else the last few years to help build a premier consulting company that is proud to feature Django as its flagship technology. We're getting Django into some pretty large and well known organizations. I have a vested interest in seeing Django both as a community and a technology be successful.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121434}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874056.3001201, "message": "And it's not like we can afford to do polling and find out what will and won't improve attendance.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121611}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874065.157553, "message": "So we play it by ear, as best we can.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121613}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874105.1869121, "message": "Or why offer food at all? Why not let conferencegoers eat on their own dime?", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121616}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874134.6061571, "message": "The community doesn't know how to put on a conference.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121622}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874298.5032239, "message": "Help as in \"we want to offer attendees information on where/how to buy local prepaid sim cards for their phones. Go figure it out.\"", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121649}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305872136.9896519, "message": "@idan I've no doubt you're feeling some frustration surrounding some of the things being said and events of the past day. Please don't let that cloud what you're thinking into misconstruing what others are saying as not being appreciative of the miraculous efforts you and others are putting forth.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121315}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305873670.74611, "message": "Also: fundraising takes time.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121546}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305873704.32638, "message": "And believe me when I say that just getting the conference together with the simplest money model (everybody pays) takes more time than we have.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121551}, {"user_id": 23031, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305873773.6902399, "message": "getting sponsors involved is far from trivial", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121563}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305873573.7513399, "message": "a lot of the US djangonauts can't make both airfare and lodging and tickets work.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121521}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305873528.923018, "message": "@idan My apologies for misunderstanding", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121507}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305873799.7060881, "message": "Well, that's a valid point. I don't know if there are any considerations against publicising the balance sheets of the conference", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121569}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305873860.5462699, "message": "c.f. pycon, bad financial management can *ruin* a conference", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121579}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [{"date_created": 1305880184.6283081, "user_id": 14653}, {"date_created": 1306101846.394891, "user_id": 6396}], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305873543.94467, "message": "Another solution: higher ticket prices. It's been my experience that a large chunk of the interesting people in the django community are self-funded, and aren't coming on an employer's dime.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121510}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305873561.3839049, "message": "So raising ticket prices pretty much excludes them. We already have this problem this year", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121516}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305873631.5533309, "message": "So unless your proposal comes with better means of raising money", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121538}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874122.0803449, "message": "The latter, by the way, is because most venues require that you book catering as part of the deal.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121619}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305873774.42014, "message": "I don't have any reason not to believe you, but consider it from an outsiders perspective as well - we all have no idea what the actual financials are; which doesn't seem to mesh well with the \"community-run\" theme", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121564}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305873371.428736, "message": "But the feedback in this thread is a lot of armchair quarterbacking. I take serious feedback seriously, but repeating over and over that \"we should find a way\" without concrete solutions gets old after the second or third time.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121491}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305873437.4340119, "message": "One solution: more sponsors. It's hard enough getting the sponsors we get. Especially in today's economic climate.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121496}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305872173.9447589, "message": "I thought it would be an interesting discussion and that maybe some ideas might come forth that everyone could benefit from.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121329}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874495.474452, "message": "No I agree - too idealistic", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121665}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [{"date_created": 1305992256.500757, "user_id": 22109}], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874992.5215099, "message": "So like all things in the open source world, maybe a fully-transparent community-run conference is a good idea; but I'm skeptical, and the only way to show me that you are +1 on it is to wade in and make it happen.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121732}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [{"date_created": 1305992259.9222479, "user_id": 22109}], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874993.4684639, "message": "Otherwise, it really just sounds like \"django should do X, but I don't feel like writing the patch\".", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121733}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305872548.553983, "message": "I regret that your involvement in conference organizing has been such a nightmare for you, but if you're going to dismiss the ideas of others in such a negative tone I respectfully ask that you remove yourself from the discussion.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121381}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305873388.696872, "message": "Fundamentally: the conference balance sheet does not work with free tickets.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121493}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305873659.724052, "message": "then it's hard for me to take the conversation seriously as a vehicle for improving how we fund the conference.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121544}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874116.5564859, "message": "Let the community decide", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121618}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [{"date_created": 1305874167.1456831, "user_id": 23031}], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874158.1655309, "message": "Those who decide to step up and really help organize get to know these issues.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121624}, {"user_id": 23031, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874645.895196, "message": "starting from scratch so to say, not knowing how well anything is going to do", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121685}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874760.8736949, "message": "Then it becomes a fundamentally different conference, because the commercial entity has to turn a profit", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121700}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305873970.7995059, "message": "End of story, as far as I'm concerned.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121592}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874195.871264, "message": "Excellent point", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121631}, {"user_id": 23031, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874507.521313, "message": "maybe the event should not be community organized as it is now", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121670}, {"user_id": 23031, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874533.500262, "message": "in EU every year it is another set of volunteers organizing it in a different country locally", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121674}, {"user_id": 23031, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874559.394985, "message": "maybe it is better to have a commercial party", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121678}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305873256.1338689, "message": "And I don't see myself as having gone \"above and beyond\" in any way -- it's just my way of donating to the community.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121486}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305873693.603605, "message": "We can relate to that - we're a virtual, international team and DC is (currently) the one time each year we all see each other face to face. Getting a dozen people there from all over and postponing client work for a week isn't trivial for us.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121550}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305873187.427851, "message": "Honestly, I have tremendous respect for the work you do, all your contributions and I remember having some nice discussions with you in Prague. I'm a bit disappointed that the mere idea of starting a conversation to see if there are ways to facilitate conferences being more successful without the organizers having to take on such huge financial and emotional risk would warrant this kind of reaction from you.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121473}, {"user_id": 23031, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305873762.549063, "message": "I think it is pretty hard to really know what goes on until you have organized such an event as DC (speaking from experience now since I'm involved in the current DC EU)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121561}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305873850.325808, "message": "and that gets rolled forward to next year's conference.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121578}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874034.0390899, "message": "Not that they costed a lot, but did everyone _need_ My Little Ponies?", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121604}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874077.414854, "message": "I can't speak to dc.us as much, since I'm less heavily involved.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121614}, {"user_id": 23031, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874773.948247, "message": "yes but that is the choice we make then", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121703}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305873612.539459, "message": "And yes -- it would be easier for them to attend if they a) gave a talk and b) speakers went free", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121533}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305873618.167793, "message": "but the money needs to come from somewhere.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121536}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305873842.94087, "message": "But as far as I know, these conferences don't make very much money, what *is* left over is usually just the \"emergency buffer\" reserved for dealing with last-minute issues", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121576}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305873865.0049951, "message": "e.g. no more conference for anybody, ever.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121580}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305873890.166044, "message": "Which isn't exactly the desired outcome.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121584}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305873964.8487141, "message": "@unbracketed so long as the conference is put on by volunteers in the community -- and it really isn't a closed club, anybody can come pitch in if they're serious about it -- it's a community-run conference.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121591}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305873992.1481509, "message": "It's a tough position for everyone then. I don't want to be that armchair quarterback, but without knowing what the balance sheets are that's all I can really offer. I mean, does the conference _have_ to be at a nice hotel? (just as an example)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121597}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874111.876277, "message": "Exactly", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121617}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874126.8829739, "message": "No, that's exactly my point", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121620}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874195.4428091, "message": "Without that experience and knowledge, \"community input\" is mostly a case of too many cooks spoiling the meal.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121630}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874229.98158, "message": "but not armchair help, because it isn't really help.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121637}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874474.4728141, "message": "I know that \"Full transparency! Let the community decide!\" is an attractive rallying cry.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121660}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305873992.1398201, "message": "Because if remco didn't sign up for this, we just wouldn't have a conference.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121596}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874034.9519989, "message": "@unbracketed maybe not. But maybe some people will be less attracted to coming to a conference that's somewhere which isn't as nice.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121606}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874092.4357319, "message": "But by the same token, you might ask why we don't skip printing t-shirts.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121615}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874223.1106541, "message": "And the organizers are *happy* for help", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121635}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874248.8770239, "message": "Help as in \"go figure out where to print t-shirts, shop for pricing, figure out delivery deadlines, coordinate the artwork.\"", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121639}, {"user_id": 23031, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874551.756547, "message": "so basically for most it will be their first", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121677}, {"user_id": 33421, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874772.591135, "message": "centralization of governance can sometimes stifle innovation. That being said, I personally dont think its beyond asking that a public organization makes its balance sheets public.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121702}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874983.4094751, "message": "The organizers change hands, and the next organizers have to start from scratch", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121727}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874517.4549241, "message": "But a conference is not a project on github where if you don't like it, or progress stalls, then maybe somebody forks with the click of a button, or maybe work simply stops until people get the motivation to move forward again.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121672}, {"user_id": 3354, "stars": [{"date_created": 1305895409.9615059, "user_id": 209}], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305876703.959275, "message": "I was also informed that actually having a proper breakfast and a lunch were much appreciated by those who had attended the (apparently rather casually organized) DjangoCon 2009. And we are already contracted to this year's venue, and looking and next year's to secure another booking.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1122011}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874537.3769369, "message": "At what point do the organizers become martyrs?", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121675}, {"user_id": 23031, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874566.822119, "message": "that organizes the event every year", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121679}, {"user_id": 23031, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874703.8062141, "message": "is hard", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121694}, {"user_id": 3354, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305876533.966717, "message": "Just a data point: DjangoCon US is a community event as far as the content goes, but Holden Web ran it as a commercial event, as the request of the DSF, and is going to do so again this year. I estimate it took roughly five weeks of full-time equivalent work (but that figure is plucked from my ass: the only real answer to \"how much time\" is \"a lot\".\n\nWe made a substantial donation to the Foundation, which I am informed went towards travel and accommodation for developers. We gave keynote speakers fee accommodation. All delegates paid registration.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121960}, {"user_id": 23031, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874661.177279, "message": "over the months that you are organizing: sponsoring, ticket sales, unforeseen costs, etc.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121686}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874982.6550241, "message": "FWIW, next year dc.eu will have a tougher time.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121726}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874986.23016, "message": "sure, they'll have the advice of past organizers, but it's not the same.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121729}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874986.897368, "message": "I personally plan on taking a break from djangocons after US; it sucks up way too much time and adds a lot of stress I just don't need.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121730}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [{"date_created": 1305992247.9446371, "user_id": 22109}], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874989.689544, "message": "Stress from trying to please a community whose most salient feedback is \"Speakers having to pay is disgusting.\"", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121731}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305875016.5764079, "message": "Thanks for all the input. Time for bed :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121736}, {"user_id": 33421, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305875123.405503, "message": "wonders if there are any applicable event management apps out there? ;)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121744}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305874994.273495, "message": "At any rate, thanks for caring about it. I gotta go work now. I'll catch up with this thread later.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121734}, {"user_id": 3354, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305876624.3845351, "message": "Conferences like OSCON and ApacheCon tend to cost two to three times as much as DjangoCon and PyCon. So the latter aren't fabulous profit makers. Without some profit, though, we would have little incentive to run the conferences.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121982}, {"user_id": 1736, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305876595.4020219, "message": "If you think it will really improve the conference, work with Steve, get the sponsorship (last year there were around 30-ish speakers, at the corp. rate that is $20k) and go from there.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1121972}, {"user_id": 3354, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305877277.6569369, "message": "The schedule of talks *is* the DSF's responsibility, however, so requests for changes in content should be referred to them. To my mind this is what justifies calling DjangoCon a \"community\" conference. OSCON (where I am a member of the organizing committee) does things very differently.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1122152}, {"user_id": 3354, "stars": [{"date_created": 1305876788.5523641, "user_id": 1736}], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305876732.08602, "message": "Unless I get direction from the DSF to change the style of the conference it's not likely to change very much.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1122018}, {"user_id": 14653, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305880623.834739, "message": "I have read the whole thread. I want to thank @idangazit and other volunteers (sorry I sadly don't know who they are) for their selfless work for organizing DjangoCon.eu, don't think community doesn't appreciate your effort", "group_id": 81, "id": 1122789}, {"user_id": 14653, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305880944.7432621, "message": "I've never been to a DjangoCon, though I wish. I even thought about submitting a talk proposal for this year conference, but I have to say it feels very intimidating for 2 main reasons: language and having the idea that you are not a star or known Django coder.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1122878}, {"user_id": 32856, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305887777.746495, "message": "If \"not being a known Django star\" is stopping you from proposing a talk, history shows that isn't really a blocker. Apparently all you have to do is put 'Django' and maybe 'HTML5' in your talk title, and then you can spend the balance of your presentation advertising an unrelated Javascript framework that you happen to have a vested interest in.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1124146}, {"user_id": 3354, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305888990.891228, "message": "@mattmcc I hope you gave the DSF this feedback after the last DjangoCon.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1124224}, {"user_id": 281, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305891340.012059, "message": "What does community organized mean?: Could we have a conference at a \"cheaper\" venue and have absolutely everything done by volunteers? Technically, possibly, but realistically probably not. There are two specific things that are being balanced here risk and time.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1124428}, {"user_id": 281, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305890588.2760971, "message": "Finally caught up on this thread, feedback to various things to follow:", "group_id": 81, "id": 1124371}, {"user_id": 281, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305891044.4346621, "message": "Conference fees: Djangocon.us is a moderately priced conference compared to most comparable events, there are cheaper events (often directly backed by an interested corporate entity e.g. MongoNYC cost ~$100 but it is also backed by 10gen) and there are more expensive events (e.g. nearly all O'Reily conferences cost $1000+). We do our best to keep things reasonably affordable but sustainable.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1124406}, {"user_id": 281, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305891842.545742, "message": "Again going back to the best feedback we have of ticket sales, since the demand for a Django conference can support the current ticket prices and those prices make using these profesional services viable, there is little incentive to forsake even more personal time and take on more risk to *potentially* reduce the cost to attendees", "group_id": 81, "id": 1124512}, {"user_id": 281, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305891489.194262, "message": "The more stuff you have being done on the ground by volunteers, the more work that needs to be done to coordinate those volunteers and to pick up the slack when people fall back on their commitments. This is not to say that volunteers are bad people, but by definition they have higher priority things going on in their lives (jobs, families, etc) that come up.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1124454}, {"user_id": 281, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305891192.5239601, "message": "Conference fees (cont): At the end of the day, the best signal we have on the pricing of the conference is ticket sales and so far every Djangocon has more or less sold out. To me that's a very clear signal that for the majority of interested attendees, the conference is appropriately priced, if not priced too low", "group_id": 81, "id": 1124417}, {"user_id": 281, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305892343.0623851, "message": "@zeeg if you really want to see these things improve: provide viable, actionable, proposals on how to improve things instead of simply complaining that you're bored with the talks and that you're not happy that the conference is not in your back yard", "group_id": 81, "id": 1124605}, {"user_id": 281, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305891690.170661, "message": "By working with a professional staff like conference direct and venues literally setup for this type of event, there is a ton of time saved and risk reduced for those of us organizing the events. We don't need to worry about loosing out venue at the last minute as we would in many more \"community\" friendly situations (e.g. a university), we don't need to worry about the conference direct staff flaking because it is literally their job to handle things like cooridinating with the venue, we don't need to worry about problems like how do we feed 300 people in a timely manner.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1124480}, {"user_id": 281, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305892175.1113701, "message": "I've put a lot of time to put out calls for feedback, proposal, and action onto the djangocon organizers mailing list and while we've gotten increasing support over the last year, there is still a big gap between what we are seeing and what is needed to make a less centrally organized conference viable", "group_id": 81, "id": 1124572}, {"user_id": 281, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305891922.6452279, "message": "In regard to community participation I'd say +1 to everything that Idan has said. People expressing their opinions about the event is marginally useful but realistically is about as useful as making a feature request without a detailed proposal or a patch.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1124529}, {"user_id": 281, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305891972.2706699, "message": "Things like actually bringing sponsors to the event and making detailed and actionable proposals are much more helpful", "group_id": 81, "id": 1124538}, {"user_id": 281, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305892081.8035901, "message": "I'd love to have a more community driven event in the sense that there are more people making decisions, unfortunately to make an actual event happen decisions have to be made on a certain timeline. Any time over the last year or two that @holdenweb and I have made fiat decisions in regard to Djangocon.us, it was simply because the decision needed to be made and nobody else was stepping up to make said decision", "group_id": 81, "id": 1124558}, {"user_id": 281, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305892541.4455421, "message": "@mattmcc I agree that the talk you reference was bad, but we made a significant effort to improve that last year and I think we did a decent job of doing so. Any actionable ideas on how we can further improve would be very welcome.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1124648}, {"user_id": 281, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305892900.4578819, "message": "@unbracketed thank you for bring up the topic for discussion :) To directly answer your question, we will probably continue the balance that @holdenweb described above since it seems to be the most pramatic balance of attracting speakers from outside the community to help provide us with feedback and perspective while keeping the conference reasonably affordable", "group_id": 81, "id": 1124696}, {"user_id": 281, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305894453.7822349, "message": "One last thing: if anybody really wants to see a different type of Django event, organize it! I can guarantee that the DSF would be happy to see more events and I'd event offer to provide guidance and support to any new events.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1124933}, {"user_id": 281, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305893535.3768411, "message": "At the end of the day is all of this perfect? Of course not, if we waited for perfect there stil would be no djangocon. We're happy to hear how we can improve (particularly over on the organizers list at https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!forum/djangocon-organizers) but if you really want to see something change, make sure that you've thought about and expressed how your change is viable and how it can be clearly acted upon", "group_id": 81, "id": 1124820}, {"user_id": 960, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305900106.483644, "message": "This conversation sort of got off into the weeds, but was definitely interesting...", "group_id": 81, "id": 1125888}, {"user_id": 960, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305900143.4506249, "message": "I think the lesson learned is that if you're going to do a \"speakers pay too\" model, you need to explain it a lot more, or people who aren't on djangocon-organizers@ aren't going to get it.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1125895}, {"user_id": 960, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305900458.7672279, "message": "... and yes, I realize the irony of that being some armchair organizing without offering to write that up given the previous discussion.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1125976}, {"user_id": 13325, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305903403.7951369, "message": "I think there have been good discussion in this thread, but I do have something to say as a 3rd party viewer.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1126477}, {"user_id": 13325, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305903720.7735851, "message": "@SeanOC \"instead of simply complaining that you're bored with the talks and that you're not happy that the conference is not in your back yard\". That is called feedback. He doesn't have to provide a solution. Nor should he be required to to be taken seriously. You can rightfully dismiss the opinion if it doesn't make sense. If it is met with animosity, then why would anyone else give you an opinion?", "group_id": 81, "id": 1126546}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305903965.7547619, "message": "At the very least, I hope we don't reach a point where people are being discouraged from simply presenting ideas (no matter how impracticable) simply because they haven't taken on serious roles as a conference organizer (which doesn't sound like a very worthwhile experience)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1126591}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305903213.2672241, "message": "@holdenweb @SeanOC Thanks so much for weighing in here and providing a lot of valuable information for the community. (not to mention all your efforts, which don't go unnoticed even though it may feel like it sometimes)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1126444}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305903113.6208811, "message": "@mattmcc I know that Rob felt terrible about how the presentation you reference went and obviously steps have been taken to try to prevent mishaps like that again in the future. Your comment shows you have nothing intelligent to contribute here.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1126423}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305903440.9382639, "message": "While I definitely support the mantra of \"show up with real effort and ideas\", I encourage everyone to keep in mind that this is simply a discussion. There's a dangerous balance I think when ideas are dismissed out of hand based on \"participation merit\"", "group_id": 81, "id": 1126483}, {"user_id": 281, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305903971.5313511, "message": "@emperorcezar unfortunately there is more context here than what is visible in this thread. You are right that without knowing that further context this tone is a bit discouraging to others and I apologize for that.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1126593}, {"user_id": 13325, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305903550.307694, "message": "@unbracketed I very much agree. All ideas should be welcomed. Even if they are dismissed, they shouldn't be dismissed with such animosity.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1126512}, {"user_id": 13325, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305903509.7489359, "message": "Someone asked a valid question and people gave their personal opinions on it. They did not need to be treated with such animosity. It puts some people in a bad light. Sadly it's something the open source community is great at. If you are the face of something like a conference, then you must put a little PR into your words.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1126497}, {"user_id": 281, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305903601.5427499, "message": "@unbracketed agreed, like I said earlier we're happy to hear suggestions and opinions as they are useful feedback. The point is that one should generally expect a proportional response, don't expect a radical change to the way things are done based on a comment or opinion alone.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1126524}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305903627.974566, "message": "That is to say, even if you (being the tireless conference organizers/volunteers) think an idea is ludicrous, keep in mind that the rest of us until now have been operating against a black box. Even though you may feel like suggestions for changing the structure of a conference are somehow personal insults leveled in your direction, explaining that you've already considered these ideas and here's why they don't work is more helpful than saying \"my life is fucking miserable because of what I've volunteered myself for and therefore your ideas are worthless\"", "group_id": 81, "id": 1126526}, {"user_id": 281, "stars": [{"date_created": 1305992611.6025701, "user_id": 22109}], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305904606.2257631, "message": "gah left out a chunk of sentence there...should have been \"when we've explained certain decisions to somebody multiple times and then get the same complaint again, a stronger response is sometimes required\"", "group_id": 81, "id": 1126688}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305904173.0903931, "message": "It is frustrating to see those who are contributing heroic amounts of their own time and energy to be having bad experiences. That's something I'd definitely like to see changed. You guys should be reward (financially) for your efforts.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1126625}, {"user_id": 13325, "stars": [{"date_created": 1305904531.565099, "user_id": 2588}, {"date_created": 1305905174.2717879, "user_id": 960}], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305904197.0152111, "message": "Or beer. Everyone loves beer.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1126629}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305904911.7001879, "message": "@SeanOC Thank you so much for all your hard work and patience.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1126756}, {"user_id": 281, "stars": [{"date_created": 1305904590.226629, "user_id": 2588}, {"date_created": 1305992609.0669539, "user_id": 22109}], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305904535.7585249, "message": "@unbracketed @emperorcezar the problem which is getting mixed here is that there is a subset of people who continually make the same complaints without providing anything more. We certainly don't take general comments or suggestions as insults, but when we've explained certain decisions to somebody multiple times and then get the same complaint again\n\nTo prevent us from continue to argue about how we agree I'll say simply say for everybody: \n\nIf you have any ideas or feedback we will happily discuss and work with your ideas, the key word being discuss. As such, to have any success it requires listening and understanding on *both* sides. If you feel there is a failure our side of that, let us know and we'll do what we can to try and correct the problem :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1126675}, {"user_id": 13325, "stars": [{"date_created": 1305904085.3687849, "user_id": 2588}], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305904067.6513441, "message": "@SeanOC No problem. I just want you guys to be seen in a good light because you do good work. If someone is a pain in the neck, then I can understand the frustration. Barcamp Chicago has its own too. I think any group does.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1126609}, {"user_id": 281, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305906916.3029749, "message": "@unbracketed happy to help, and thank you for the discussion. With the frustration there is definitely some good feedback in here and it was a good opportunity to share the process with some new people", "group_id": 81, "id": 1127223}, {"user_id": 32856, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305911741.6743939, "message": "@SeanOC Actually I was mildly amused by the incident, and I'm not entirely sure how conference managers can completely prevent it from happening if a presenter is willing to misrepresent his subject matter. Overall, I thought the audience (which I was part of) was fairly good-humored about the whole thing. I would actually hope that being \"known\" does _not_ become a prerequisite to being a speaker, or the body of presenters won't be especially likely to gain new blood.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1127988}, {"user_id": 4674, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305916583.815805, "message": "Personally, I preferred the keynote speakers that were higher-profile in the past. Some of my favorite talks were from Cal Henderson, Guido, Zed Shaw, Ted Leung, and Joe Stump.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1128928}, {"user_id": 4674, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305916063.848923, "message": "WRT the need for sponsors, the typical sponsors pitch, \"Give us some money so you can have your logo on our website and put some stickers in a swag bag\" isn't very enticing for me. ATM, I have no idea what is done with the sponsorship money. At a commercial conference, I'd assume it is additional profit for the organizers. If I knew the money was going towards lower ticket prices, paying better speakers, etc., I'd be more inclined to sponsor.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1128814}, {"user_id": 281, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305984075.8132839, "message": "@ipmb we're working on getting a few speakers like that for this year, hopefully we'll have some good news to announce in the next few weeks :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1133871}, {"user_id": 281, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1305984028.8734651, "message": "@ipmb @holdenweb can give a better response to how sponsor money is used wrt to Djangocon.us than I....that being said, my understanding of it is once the conference costs and reasonable compensation is covered, most of the remaining money raised by the conference goes to the DSF. The DSF then uses that money to sponsor attendees with need and to support community events (e.g. sprints)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1133870}, {"user_id": 31403, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306065581.143784, "message": "@idan on saliency: I think the big majority is silent and content about the situation, the negative comments are the ones you hear the most. Pretty common on the interwebs I believe.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1141143}, {"user_id": 6396, "stars": [{"date_created": 1306130516.450141, "user_id": 133}, {"date_created": 1306268719.1201501, "user_id": 18843}], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306103067.125438, "message": "Having worked at an events company which put on 2 similar sized events a year - it's a hard full time job for a team of 5+. The list of things that need to be planned out feels endless. Not getting paid to organise something at such scale? Ridiculous. You have my full respect.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1144760}, {"user_id": 26920, "stars": [{"date_created": 1306172161.2293949, "user_id": 960}], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306166891.755182, "message": "Perhaps speaking (hopefully) for some... I attended DjangoCon US 2010 and found it (for me) to be extremely useful. Was it perfect? No, but I got a lot out of it. My list of \"need to investigate\" items was extremely long. My work now is better for it. That's why this year's us conference is a \"must attend\" for me. I could see where if I were more involved in the community and a bit more advanced with my use of Django I'd likely get slightly less tech and more social out of it. But that's generally going to be true regardless of the community.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1154201}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184647.10375, "message": "but not jsut Django either", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157092}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184329.732903, "message": "All models come with tradeoffs.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157011}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306180425.0739551, "message": "Paying speakers is pretty much a nonstarter for conferences like DjangoCon.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1156443}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306180498.7916861, "message": "As for invited speakers -- at least in DjangoCon Europe, invited (read: keynote) speakers do get a free conference ticket. It would be pretty churlish of us to invite somebody and make them pay.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1156453}, {"user_id": 16858, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306179589.1906309, "message": "Perhaps \"invited\" speakers could be paid, but those submitting talks -- no. After all, its a community thing, almost more of just a bunch of colleagues getting together to talk and learn from on another.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1156279}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306180529.2178431, "message": "But that's something which the conference can afford, because we have, what\u20142, 3 keynote speakers at the conference? Not a big deal.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1156458}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306180455.1458261, "message": "Not without major changes to the conference, changes I don't think that the community will appreciate.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1156447}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185052.4822919, "message": "I've yet to hear a good argument why making tickets cheaper/free for speakers will make it any more likely that we'll have good speakers.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157172}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185097.077266, "message": "There's topic interest.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157177}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184177.310447, "message": "(not sure if they've done it before this year either)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1156970}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184211.643925, "message": "then \"things can be done\" is a long checklist that just doesn't happen.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1156983}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306183716.4137101, "message": "Get proper sponsors, spend the money wisely, cover at least tickets for speakers. Problem solved.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1156850}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184433.64271, "message": "I'm not wanting to organize DjangoCon, I was just voicing my opinion as a speaker", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157044}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184614.6740019, "message": "Defining \"awesome\"", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157086}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184718.5841269, "message": "OK, the point I was trying to make there was that the former seem happy to attend and speak without being paid.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157103}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184839.7545891, "message": "and it's very very far from paying travel expenses to a significant number of attendees.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157125}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184849.1666541, "message": "PyCon doesn't pay speakers or give them free tickets.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157129}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184902.563518, "message": "(aside: I enjoyed yours)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157138}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306183973.4681921, "message": "@zeeg: I'm getting pretty tired of explaining that it's not a matter of \"spending money wisely\".", "group_id": 81, "id": 1156897}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184098.7419579, "message": "but if you want to grow, there's ways to grow. I would look at other successful conferences that pull off what DjangoCon wants to achieve", "group_id": 81, "id": 1156940}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184140.7416079, "message": "I liked some of the things EuroPy was doing to attract them", "group_id": 81, "id": 1156956}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184000.7732179, "message": "@zeeg: if you'd like to help organize DC or DC Europe\u2014for real\u2014then do it.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1156904}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184061.557564, "message": "Sponsors.get(100).", "group_id": 81, "id": 1156925}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184101.563154, "message": "no need to reinvent the wheel", "group_id": 81, "id": 1156942}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184105.2896931, "message": "@zeeg: \"get more sponsors\" is not \"do something different\"", "group_id": 81, "id": 1156944}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184114.640126, "message": "\"Here is where you can get more sponsors\" -> helpful.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1156946}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184120.7134731, "message": "if you want more sponsors it has to be valuable for them", "group_id": 81, "id": 1156949}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184136.221282, "message": "Sigh.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1156953}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306183755.0255589, "message": "I don't feel like even keynote speakers should be paid. Yes, they shouldn't be paying to be invited to speak, and probably should even have a hotel comped, maybe a flight, but that's about it. I do feel all speakers should get comped on conf tickets.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1156855}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184023.0296741, "message": "@idan did you miss the key part of that? get proper sponsors -- I know we dumped like 2500 for some small sponsorship at PyCon, and we were a low level sponsor", "group_id": 81, "id": 1156911}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184192.4007709, "message": "But like I said above: barring more people stepping up to help out", "group_id": 81, "id": 1156976}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184204.3013589, "message": "Not claiming its easy either :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1156981}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184600.2306521, "message": "I dont feel like it's something that you get for free. I feel like it's an investment", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157083}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184043.4007919, "message": "@zeeg: did you miss the part where I said that getting sponsors was hard enough?", "group_id": 81, "id": 1156919}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184143.4064181, "message": "Yes, there are ways to grow a conference.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1156958}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184172.0224531, "message": "For example, the recruiting thing was kind of cool (even if it turns out to be a big failure)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1156966}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184418.718277, "message": "@zeeg: *you* ask jquery conf how they pull it off :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157040}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184652.3477521, "message": "I thought Cal's talk at the first DjangoCon was amazing", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157094}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184675.8249581, "message": "i honestly dont even remember the keynote(s) form the last one", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157097}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184888.6900611, "message": "(not rhetorically, I wasn't at pycon either)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157136}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184946.272294, "message": "but there's always a few really good ones", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157150}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184174.2570479, "message": "Conference organizers, contrary to popular belief, are not tupid.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1156968}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184300.3149879, "message": "But I feel like there are some very successful models of achieving what's been proposed in here. I don't claim to know what they are, but it's pretty common in other communities", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157003}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184688.2820771, "message": "Not so much famous, maybe well known because they give great presentations", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157100}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185092.766602, "message": "there's technical depth, and delivery.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157176}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185772.332021, "message": "(for non corporate)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157290}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186008.4107299, "message": "It'd be cool if there could be more collab between EU/US. The EU site seems to have a lot more polish than the US one", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157331}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186037.7041659, "message": ":)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157335}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186216.532479, "message": "I'm not saying that a discount wouldn't give you warm fuzzies\u2014everybody likes to get a sweet deal.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157358}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186263.263077, "message": "I think our conference setup is simply uncommon.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157365}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186371.2096381, "message": "but I'm not sure how that works with \"convince people to sign up early, for a discount\"", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157385}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186410.442745, "message": "One of our goals is to encourage new people to step up and speak", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157393}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184063.4972601, "message": "@idan well, if everyones happy with the way things currently are, then dont try to do something different", "group_id": 81, "id": 1156926}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184854.620528, "message": "PyCon is a *big* conference", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157130}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184920.552736, "message": "I don't think DjangoCon should go so far as paying travel expenses for everyone. Just covering speakers ticket cost (or at least greatly reducing it). It's not the cheapest conference, and again, it's not a conference without speakers", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157140}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184979.8171699, "message": "well, thats my biased opinion in that im just bored in most talks :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157166}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185337.830754, "message": "But if you hit a sweet spot for enough of them, it attracts the right people.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157217}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184056.3138821, "message": "It's not like we have a magic sponsor getter.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1156923}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184192.5495429, "message": "Didn't say anyone was stupid, I'm just saying there's ways that things can be done. It's not like I'm proposing something impossible", "group_id": 81, "id": 1156977}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184395.1164989, "message": "\"No'", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157031}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184574.4324501, "message": "It's just the way I feel, you can have \"ok\" speakers, who are willing to pay $500 + expenses to go to the conference, and support them. But just maybe if you are able to comp certain things you can attract the \"awesome\" speakers, and gain more attendance, better sponsors, etc.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157077}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185842.827168, "message": "I did at DjangoCon EU :/", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157303}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [{"date_created": 1306186474.6852579, "user_id": 960}], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184273.196151, "message": "I don't think we're doing a good job getting across how woefully ridiculously underpowered the organizers are relative to the mountain of things that need to be done for a conference.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1156995}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184388.212127, "message": "Ask jQuery conf how they pull it off", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157025}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184393.234386, "message": "cheap tickets, comping speakers for pretty much everything", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157029}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184675.881326, "message": "is \"awesome\" some kind of famous personality? Say, Merlin Mann. Or the technical equivalent.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157098}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184970.8633349, "message": "if it's 50% suckage regardless of comping.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157160}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184288.69028, "message": "If nothing else, a *great* reason for how we do tickets:", "group_id": 81, "id": 1156997}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184800.133348, "message": "And by extension, since leftover money goes to the DSF (for DC US), the conference does fund that kind of \"scholarship\"", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157121}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185139.41695, "message": "well even discounted IMO would be a step up", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157184}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185149.145637, "message": "so how do you get the other good speakers? :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157190}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184296.2506299, "message": "because it's simple to implement and removes overhead.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157000}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184553.1314099, "message": "At any rate. I'd like to impress upon readers that we're very open to ideas that come with volunteer help to make those ideas happen.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157075}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184765.518707, "message": "because for them, each conference costs like a small toyota in airfare.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157115}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184791.962805, "message": "I'm completely speaking out of the perspective as a speaker/attendee here, always and forever. I don't want to organize/help beyond voicing my opinion. Just trying to let people know what I've heard, what I think, and hope that it will get other people to chime in", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157120}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185123.3706541, "message": "What would you say attracts better speakers?", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157181}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184322.361562, "message": "Sure. There are a lot of successful models. Here's a simple one: raise ticket prices.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157010}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184358.3232069, "message": "We like the ones we made, given the resources at our disposal, and barring a change in community involvement that would open up other avenues of money.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157017}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184418.628679, "message": "It's far from impossible", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157039}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184429.114897, "message": "and figure out if it works for us", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157043}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184451.001384, "message": "Ah. OK -- just so we're clear, you'd like some features, but you don't feel like developing 'em :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157051}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184489.8269539, "message": "I heard good things about JSConf too.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157061}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184592.613471, "message": "Purely as a matter of opinion, I disagree", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157079}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185606.377115, "message": "Got busy, can't keep up with Convore ><", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157257}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185622.452924, "message": "@idan what if it were just reduced rates? (EuroPy did that)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157260}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185741.0625839, "message": "Undecided", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157285}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185938.2175889, "message": "^^ one of our concerns last year was we also had to buy tickets before we even had any clue if we were speaking", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157320}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186317.351716, "message": "the speaker schedule is announced when the site goes live", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157371}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186372.7672019, "message": "@zeeg: nod.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157386}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184821.8477261, "message": "But that's a far cry from \"every speaker ticket\"", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157123}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184468.8528409, "message": "JSconf was also a little bit more expensive, but they cover everything as well, its also a bigger conf", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157057}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184635.5835071, "message": "is \"awesome\" Jacob? Armin? etc. Let's call them \"Community Technical Leaders\"", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157090}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184643.467365, "message": "A whole batch of those :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157091}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184964.1416349, "message": "So what's the argument for comping tickets, then?", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157156}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185221.60325, "message": "As soon as speakers become a special class, the conference morphs (subtly)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157203}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186231.910872, "message": "Depends on if I really wanted to go. I'm honestly not sure if I would or not. Company would comp it for me, so it'd be more about do I agree with everything/really want to attend", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157359}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186776.8537641, "message": "but ya there's a big difference between a very community driven conf, and one that is full of exceptional speakers, and very professional", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157448}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184753.1393909, "message": "The DSF *does* use their money to help get people like Russ across the globe", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157111}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184880.4975269, "message": "Did you find the talks there to be sucky, too?", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157134}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184936.378742, "message": "I find 50% of talks at everyone conf to be \"sucky\", whether they're comped or not :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157148}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306184973.058974, "message": "that it could attract better quality speakers", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157162}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186725.932189, "message": "I'm not sure if there's room for something larger for DjangoCon, or if there just needs to be more non-PyCon... PyCons", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157435}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186746.1901691, "message": "but I definitely would like to see more events, and the only two I really attend (or even have on my radar) around Python are DjangoCon and PyCon", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157443}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186808.5154991, "message": "Ya I wonder if Django is big enough, that's the hard tell", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157455}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185235.239723, "message": "from a collection of like-minded equals into a series of lectures.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157204}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185261.781565, "message": "I don't know how much of that is from speaker tickets becoming less expensive", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157206}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185268.9350851, "message": "or from attendee tickets becoming more expensive.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157207}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185348.856395, "message": "Which in turn attracts more of the right people.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157218}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185384.984802, "message": "\"Speakers pay like everybody\" sets a tone which isn't negative at all.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157227}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185451.6108179, "message": "</rant>", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157241}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185982.222276, "message": "Between dc.eu, startup, and, erm, life, I'm the holdup on the new dc.us site.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157327}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186028.6701801, "message": "@zeeg hah, thanks. Wait 'til you see the new US site.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157334}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186087.686024, "message": "@GrahamDumpleton the plan is to launch before the conf in two weeks", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157340}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185124.585886, "message": "I don't see how making a ticket free brings all of those into magical alignment.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157182}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186051.261956, "message": "(FWIW I might be interested in helping on the web things, but I guarantee nothing :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157338}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186518.344419, "message": "In another corner of the conference \"space\", there are big corporate affairs", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157406}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186609.975754, "message": "and exorbitantly high ticket prices, which would lock out everybody but people like you, who have a disqus to foot the bill.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157423}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186677.6547821, "message": "we're a real community affair: lots of grassroots content sharing", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157430}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186745.7611821, "message": "also as a result: we have social considerations in our conference decisions. Most conferences just care about the money.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157442}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186879.70594, "message": "Yup. We could probably do a conference of just exceptional speakers, but it would be very different in feel.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157461}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185159.2396741, "message": "Again, hard to quantify.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157195}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185191.1829431, "message": "With everybody paying, there's an implicit leveling of the playing field.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157198}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185290.884814, "message": "But it's a powerful statement which is lost upon dilution.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157210}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185767.613086, "message": "a few hundred bucks. 400?", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157288}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185871.2925, "message": "True, and that's a large part of why I haven't been to a DC.US yet", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157307}, {"user_id": 16551, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185997.5556891, "message": "@idan At least get the front page updated with a status of where things are at and if interested in sponsorship or helping who to contact.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157330}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186106.9091561, "message": "@GrahamDumpleton it's not ideal, but *shrug* volunteer time.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157341}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186192.911757, "message": "For a US conf, would you really decline?", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157355}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185177.1465969, "message": "But that's part of my ideological thing for everybody-pays, too.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157197}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185197.852293, "message": "Speakers are attendees who get onstage.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157200}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185326.0862851, "message": "A good conference is like a hot restaurant. You don't need to make the best food. You don't need the best decor. You don't need the best service.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157215}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185733.3419139, "message": "are you coming to dc.us?", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157283}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185758.0522239, "message": "OK. What were the ticket fees last year, do you remember?", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157286}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306187043.0943091, "message": "Maybe a post-conference shindig somewhere. Maybe.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157487}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306187054.06881, "message": "*shrug* doesn't sound like a djangocon to me :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157490}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185435.1136799, "message": "If the issue is \"How do we get better speakers\" -- I'm *happy* to hear ideas on how to improve that, but I don't see speaker tickets as the sole barrier there, let alone the primary one.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157239}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185689.5120831, "message": "well, that I *really* can't speak to -- I don't know what they consider to be a keynote or not, and really operating a conference on that scale is a rather different animal than the django cons.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157273}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185087.0643139, "message": "Speaker greatness is hard to quantify", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157173}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185153.1820581, "message": "A good vibe :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157193}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185637.4058621, "message": "@idan also FWIW, PyCon didn't cover *any* of our costs, and we gave a small keynote", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157262}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186010.143084, "message": "But point taken -- it's definitely something I'm unhappy about.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157332}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186647.8965471, "message": "But I think that's true for a lot of djangonauts.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157428}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186711.0103791, "message": "ya", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157434}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186287.801703, "message": "I look at conferences like BuildConf", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157367}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186307.5932951, "message": "They line up a set of speakers, setup dates, etc", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157369}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186362.6408999, "message": "That's one way to operate -- but it limits speakers to a relatively limited roster of \"known rockstars\"", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157381}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186463.6536951, "message": "If you saw a roster of unknowns, you would definitely think twice about attending, even if the same roster announced post-ticket-purchse wouldn't make you feel negatively.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157400}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186760.4763119, "message": "@zeeg have a chat with Steve at DC.us, then.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157447}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185140.4388001, "message": "Like all things: other good speakers :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157185}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185149.970171, "message": "A good audience.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157191}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185943.4889071, "message": "@idan not for international", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157322}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186021.3993011, "message": "(but totally off topic)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157333}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186564.822458, "message": "lots of \"workshops\" and \"sessions\" and whatnot, but those aren't speakers and often conferences charge \"exhibitors\" for the space", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157416}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186580.6999309, "message": "only a small number of keynote speakers, treated like royalty.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157418}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186637.194365, "message": "So it's in my interest that it doesn't happen :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157426}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186658.8884499, "message": "We're an odd conference in that:", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157429}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185643.4551439, "message": "(which had us a little irritated)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157263}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185729.641552, "message": "Let me put it this way:", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157281}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185768.4853981, "message": "I think a little over 300 for early bird", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157289}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185851.814889, "message": "(but thats a lot costlier than US)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157305}, {"user_id": 16551, "stars": [{"date_created": 1306185920.023684, "user_id": 1127}], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185888.913404, "message": "Comment on sponsorship. If you want to get sponsors on board early, then at least get the djangocon.us site updated to refer to 2011 conference and not 2010. I know people who likely will want to be involved in some way this year, but I don't even have a site to point them at which details of who to contact. It looks really bad and makes it hard for potential sponsors to plan ahead.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157312}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186622.224494, "message": "*I* couldn't attend such a conference.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157424}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185724.1751311, "message": "the ROI on reduced rates (in terms of getting better speakers) doesn't seem to be worthwhile.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157279}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185822.4241481, "message": "Right. If your talk is accepted, and you don't pay a cent less, will you decline an opportunity to speak?", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157297}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185924.042906, "message": "But if your conference ticket was reduced here from 400 EUR to 300 EUR, would that make a meaningful difference in your total cost of conference?", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157315}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306185939.3740029, "message": "@GrahamDumpleton that's actually my fault", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157321}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186160.580018, "message": "unbranching conversation: @zeeg so for the international ocnf, the difference is meaningless.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157350}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186244.411171, "message": "I'm just not sure how common it is for attendees/speakers to pay out of pocket", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157360}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186298.4218111, "message": "Or even various rails confs", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157368}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186331.0580959, "message": "Maybe talk topics are \"TBA\", but even then, it's the minority I've observed.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157375}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186360.783406, "message": "IMO the earlier those things can be announced before the conference the better", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157380}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186388.5385561, "message": "Early bird pricing takes care of that.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157390}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186426.6311519, "message": "That's incompatible with the prebaked speaker lineup approach.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157396}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186525.6186941, "message": "Much fewer speakers", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157408}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186700.2992139, "message": "and as a result, the ratio of speakers to attendees is very high", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157433}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306187076.5955751, "message": "I'd just be sad if djangocon were replaced by it.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157497}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186777.8946321, "message": "I think he shares your desires, except he's actually in a position to do something about it.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157449}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186973.969764, "message": "No panels, just \"famous\" people giving talks.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157468}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306187355.6544161, "message": "@tswicegood yeah.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157553}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186954.7241311, "message": "I imagine a one- or two-day conf with headlining speakers and expensive tickets.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157467}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306187068.029346, "message": "But I'm not saying there isn't room for that sort of thing in djangoland.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157496}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186794.619432, "message": "I know he's trying to figure out \"what next\" in the world of django cons.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157453}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186832.7132111, "message": "cc @holdenweb ^^", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157457}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186895.5042491, "message": "And I'm really not sure that it would be better.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157462}, {"user_id": 960, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306186978.7560229, "message": "@idan Tickets if you walked-in were $500. PyCon was $400. (fwiw)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157470}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306187018.5533481, "message": "No sprints. No breakfasts. A lot less talks.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157479}, {"user_id": 960, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306187188.0930991, "message": "That's normally 6-months out. Many times by then they already have a keynote or two lined up so they can claim a headliner or two, but that's it.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157521}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306187146.8225241, "message": "Ya I also dont feel like it would really be a Django-con either", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157511}, {"user_id": 960, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306187155.4536059, "message": "@idan most conferences I've been a part of go live with a splash page and a CfP, but the basics are there (when, where, etc.).", "group_id": 81, "id": 1157513}, {"user_id": 3354, "stars": [{"date_created": 1306216156.5125339, "user_id": 219}], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306215839.505306, "message": "@zeeg \"The EU site seems to have a lot more polish than the US one\" I don't suppose that could b anything to do with the fact the it's three months earlier? Do you spend your whole life criticizing?", "group_id": 81, "id": 1162114}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306219700.2035699, "message": "3. We give a lot back, I'm pretty sure no one questions that", "group_id": 81, "id": 1162638}, {"user_id": 3354, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306216541.711252, "message": "As far as the web site goes, @idan has explained that he is the limiting resource. Yes, it's frustrating, but that's one of the aspects of a community conference. Commercial conferences are emerging, and presumably Disqus will be speaking at those. Frankly, I'd have expected a company like Disqus to be funding speakers at conferences just as a matter of marketing. \"Staying lean\" is not the same as \"asking for subsidies from non-profits\". While DjangoCon US is commercially run, that's a matter of the DSF wishing to eliminate risk, and our being prepared to accept that risk. Clearly it wouldn't be commercially sensible to do so without planning for a profit. The value of your investment can go down as well as up.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1162201}, {"user_id": 3354, "stars": [{"date_created": 1306217011.1915181, "user_id": 15892}], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306216905.7618351, "message": "You might consider filing your speaking contributions under \"giving something back,\" just like open sourcing Sentry and Gargoyle. This is not the commercial world your fathers grew up in.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1162234}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306219690.477102, "message": "2. Disqus comps us for speaking. We're a lean startup, we're not a giant corporate entity, we don't take 50m in funding so we can sponsor every event and burn cash", "group_id": 81, "id": 1162635}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306219651.9686761, "message": "@holdenweb I'm not sure what your bickering at, but a few things:", "group_id": 81, "id": 1162627}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306219670.2560639, "message": "Three months early.. there was last year as well", "group_id": 81, "id": 1162631}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306219665.114476, "message": "1. The US DjangoCon site never was as professional looking as the current DjangoCon EU", "group_id": 81, "id": 1162630}, {"user_id": 214, "stars": [{"date_created": 1306249647.0126469, "user_id": 7}, {"date_created": 1306269475.1600609, "user_id": 133}, {"date_created": 1306316233.8088551, "user_id": 6396}], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306219856.593497, "message": "The hypothesis that comping speakers improves speaker quality is entirely an article of faith here; just read this entire thread and no evidence of it was ever provided. There's good reasons to think it would not actually be the case: see motivation displacement.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1162651}, {"user_id": 3354, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306221214.9948061, "message": "@zeeg I'm sure nobody questions that you give a lot back (which was why I specifically mentioned some open source contributions). It's noticeable, though, that your comments here have occupied DjangoCon organizers for some time. That might be considered counter-productive.\n\nI'm sure Disqus isn't a giant corporate entity. Neither is Holden Web. So if I'm \"bickering\" (and I thought I was trying to explain my point of view) it's because this discussion takes time I would rather be spending elsewhere. It seems to me that at the heart of this thread is an implication that the conference is somehow being run \"the wrong way\". It's actually started out pretty much the same way as PyCon did, and if it ever gets to PyCon's size then hopefully the same advantages of scale can be used to bring costs to delegates down.\n\nBut in Portland there was also a substantial weight of opinion against enlarging DjangoCon too much, since people felt it woud lose the essential flavor.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1162901}, {"user_id": 133, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306269621.9933209, "message": "@ubernostrum feel free to weigh in. :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1170329}, {"user_id": 3447, "stars": [{"date_created": 1306269617.648761, "user_id": 281}, {"date_created": 1306322963.028476, "user_id": 32856}, {"date_created": 1306616861.9132521, "user_id": 927}, {"date_created": 1306863478.0157549, "user_id": 960}], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306269219.5217891, "message": "What are y'all running your yaps about now?", "group_id": 81, "id": 1170274}, {"user_id": 1963, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306270508.46099, "message": "Y'all work it out. Either way, I'm excited about being there. Just registered :)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1170441}, {"user_id": 1169, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306281068.882767, "message": "Regarding conference risk/venue mayhem: it seems like a lot of the hassle that conference organizers run into could be solved by becoming a bigger fish in a smaller pond. By that I mean, the conference is a small one (compared to OSCON-style ones) that's competing for space and resources in venues that are used to accommodating much larger conferences.\n\nMight I suggest looking next towards a smalltown-ish venue that would be more eager for your business? For instance (and this is only an example), I live in a Midwestern metro area of about 150,000 people, with several universities (and the accompanying libations, if that's important), and at least one hotel that can handle conferences larger than pycon. I'm sure I'm overlooking the obvious downsides to that kind of approach, but I don't see it.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1172003}, {"user_id": 1152, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306285120.328289, "message": "Downsides: more expensive airfare if it's not a hub, less attract \"outside the venue\" area for most conference goers, no local usergroup has stepped up to help with a bid for that city or venue, etc. For example - all PyCon bids are put together by usergroups willing to help. We don't pluck location out of a hat.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1172418}, {"user_id": 1152, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306285239.4999881, "message": "Sure, we can have a conference in a nice hotel in the middle of a Midwest city or someplace like, say - Montana - but there's now \"draw\" to the place socially for 95% of the conference attendees. You've now sacrificed social draw for cost of venue", "group_id": 81, "id": 1172427}, {"user_id": 1152, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306285292.5723071, "message": "We could also have it a a Motel 6 in the middle of the SF bay area - but again, you're flipping the tradeoffs", "group_id": 81, "id": 1172438}, {"user_id": 1127, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306288261.754154, "message": "There's a weakness of user groups in general from my experience. How common are these \"bids\" and how common are acceptable bids?", "group_id": 81, "id": 1172779}, {"user_id": 1169, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306287187.9355309, "message": "I understand the ramifications of a reduced social draw, but I don't think that's the case with most college towns. On the contrary, I think college towns cater to the walking crowd at least as well as most big-city metro areas.\n\nRegarding airfare, I don't know how typical it is, but *my* town has non-stop flights to LOTS of the major cities. If not non-stop, most US locations are 1-hop away. But it's true that it's worth considering.\n\nRegarding user groups, that's a real weakness of small towns in general. I know my town has a couple of tech-progressive development shops, and I wonder if the \"boots on the ground\" need could be filled by these small companies donating employee time to the effort. Still, no good answer to that objection. :-/", "group_id": 81, "id": 1172640}, {"user_id": 1152, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306289028.4370699, "message": "@zeeg We had 4 groups bid for PyCon 2014/2015 at PyCon 2011, one of which (Montreal) submitting a massively compelling bid, extremely well put together, logistics already planned out, etc. So the bids are common, and user group driven.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1172883}, {"user_id": 1152, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306289052.5124891, "message": "@zeeg I really wanted to see a PDX bid, but alas, none was forthcoming.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1172889}, {"user_id": 1152, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306289329.853996, "message": "@zeeg and FTR? Montreal put a bid together that floored almost everyone in the room, including other bidding groups. I mean, it was seriously amazing.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1172943}, {"user_id": 1152, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306289174.1627989, "message": "@donspaulding The PSF has not historically picked \"random\" locations - ChiPy put together Chicago, the Atlanta bid was driven by the user group - Baypiggies put together the california bid, etc. The user groups really drive where we go. This may not always be true in the future.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1172907}, {"user_id": 1169, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306292283.7596011, "message": "@jessenoller good info. Is there a bid packet that interested groups can start with when putting together a bid, or is it all done from scratch by every group every time?", "group_id": 81, "id": 1173360}, {"user_id": 1169, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306292363.301434, "message": "(BTW, I know we're talking about pycon, but my interest is equally fueled by interest in DC)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1173371}, {"user_id": 3354, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306301086.395453, "message": "Yup, glad to have you on board!", "group_id": 81, "id": 1174677}, {"user_id": 1152, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306316496.558135, "message": "@donspaulding let me look into the bid packet info", "group_id": 81, "id": 1176182}, {"user_id": 1152, "stars": [{"date_created": 1306363746.5982561, "user_id": 25106}, {"date_created": 1306373610.6345029, "user_id": 215}, {"date_created": 1306417866.7174621, "user_id": 22109}], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306343992.5948009, "message": "For everyone's edification, I put together a post on PyCon's history and policy here: http://jessenoller.com/2011/05/25/pycon-everybody-pays/", "group_id": 81, "id": 1181128}, {"user_id": 2588, "stars": [{"date_created": 1306363754.410624, "user_id": 25106}], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306347066.986191, "message": "This is really nice @jessenoller. Thank you for putting that together.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1181770}, {"user_id": 31790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306597279.9743991, "message": "@jessenoller Nice summary, thanks! You missed mentioning where the policy originally came from; at the outset, PyCon was explicitly modeled on established practices of volunteer-run science-fiction conventions.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1212901}, {"user_id": 3354, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306754178.153511, "message": "With due respect, I Have never been to a science fiction convention in my life. Sure, people like Aahz (and you?) who *do* go to them had some input, but that certainly wasn't the only reason for doing things the way we did. I was mostly concerned with keeping the cost down so people who hadn't been able to afford the International Python Conference series could come to PyCon and contribute.", "group_id": 81, "id": 1226300}, {"user_id": 31790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 35984, "date_created": 1306805640.283761, "message": "@holdenweb well, if by 'had some input' you mean 'argued for the position and against paying speakers while holding up an existing proven model as an example to emulate', then sure. We also convinced AMK to go to SMOFCON, IIRC. But perhaps in the end all we were really doing was provide air cover to distract the 'paying speakers gets you higher quality talks' crowd so the rest of you could do what you wanted to do anyway. ;-)", "group_id": 81, "id": 1233452}] |