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Kenneth Reitz
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85 KiB
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1 line
85 KiB
JSON
[{"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068256.6404531, "message": "bah justement ce n'est pas normal", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146935}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068151.4279079, "message": "Une donn\u00e9e lib\u00e9r\u00e9e est une donn\u00e9e brute qui n'a re\u00e7u que tr\u00e8s peu de traitement, elle existait et elle est juste mise \u00e0 disposition", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146917}, {"user_id": 13737, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068160.945852, "message": "Doit-il pas n\u00e9cessairement - mais il peut l'\u00eatre :)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146918}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068174.2884519, "message": "le pb c que dans l'administration la donn\u00e9e brute est rare", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146920}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068241.676394, "message": "je pense aussi", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146931}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068378.958061, "message": "http://opendata.paris.fr/opendata/jsp/site/Portal.jsp (cliquer sur Format)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146957}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068139.5290949, "message": "hop", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146914}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068191.308141, "message": "il y a bcp de donn\u00e9es \u00e0 \u00e9diter", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146922}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068363.0914841, "message": "quel serait le but de la lib\u00e9ration?", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146956}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068395.004046, "message": "ex les donn\u00e9es insee sont loins d'etre brute", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146963}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068396.7791791, "message": "+s", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146964}, {"user_id": 13737, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068437.898082, "message": "donc seule la publication est n\u00e9cessaire ?", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146970}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068480.6430969, "message": "et investir dans la soci\u00e9t\u00e9", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146975}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068798.436152, "message": "ca me choque pas plus que ca si on trouve un moyen de paiement directement li\u00e9 au CA que ces donn\u00e9es ont permis de g\u00e9n\u00e9rer", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147024}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068827.2513731, "message": "comme au greffe", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147029}, {"user_id": 13737, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068934.2887111, "message": "Dans ce cas, tout est gratuit...", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147046}, {"user_id": 13737, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068207.8591609, "message": "et faut bien qu'elle sorte d'un excel / word / ... tout pourri dans un format qui va bien", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146924}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068448.9909101, "message": "euh ce qui veut dire?", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146971}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068460.8720269, "message": "imo ouvror les don\u00e9nes a un but politique", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146973}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068492.81793, "message": "ou les 2", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146977}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068515.6279559, "message": "mais on hack jamais pour rien", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146982}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068762.9628329, "message": "r\u00e9galien", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147015}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068969.9632249, "message": "nsteinmetz bah non tu paies pour un service", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147048}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068979.148978, "message": "mais je rebondissais sur le mot b\u00e9neficier", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147050}, {"user_id": 13737, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068980.1288979, "message": "ben oui je suis d'accord", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147051}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070039.7504251, "message": "(et son croisement avec d'autres donn\u00e9es)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147184}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070099.382036, "message": "soit on paye, soit on paye pas", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147201}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068238.2337921, "message": "Une bonne partie des donn\u00e9es lib\u00e9r\u00e9es est dans un format tout pourri pour l'instant en France hein...", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146930}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068734.275985, "message": "et il est normal que l'exploitation commerciale soit redistribu\u00e9s", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147006}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068749.0659361, "message": "autant payer directeement le systeme", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147010}, {"user_id": 13737, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069368.540189, "message": "rien que cette \u00e9dition propre a clairement un cout", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147099}, {"user_id": 13737, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069472.396075, "message": "si le cout = cout marginal de mise \u00e0 disposition c'est acceptable pour tout le monde je pense", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147107}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068265.5999379, "message": "Donc le co\u00fbt de mise \u00e0 disposition est minime, c'est plus une d\u00e9cision politique", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146937}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068709.3972771, "message": "elles ont cout\u00e9s cher \u00e0 etre collect\u00e9es", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147000}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068743.2318289, "message": "et si le systeme s'autoentretient", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147009}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068756.3350091, "message": "plutot que d'attendre l'impot", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147012}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068759.8662491, "message": "qui lui est rgalien", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147013}, {"user_id": 13737, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069739.636663, "message": "aucune id\u00e9e, je dois \u00eatre trop jeune pour me rappeler de la planification en FR :)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147136}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069241.680239, "message": "le bonus", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147079}, {"user_id": 13737, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069934.6225309, "message": "tout comme ton utilisateur sera pr\u00eat \u00e0 te payer pour acc\u00e9der au r\u00e9sultat des donn\u00e9es et de ton traitement", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147167}, {"user_id": 13737, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070124.8863521, "message": "copie du num\u00e9rique = cout de distribution. Pas de mise \u00e0 disposition", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147202}, {"user_id": 13737, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070223.3356061, "message": "certes mais ce n'est qu'un bout du probleme", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147206}, {"user_id": 13737, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071129.555299, "message": "bon moi je vous laisse ; bonne nuit !", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147312}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068287.7189839, "message": "(le format etc)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146943}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068319.1151149, "message": "et ce sans reposer sur un service commercial qui \u00e0 terme les fera payer", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146946}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068406.4791939, "message": "de meme que les donn\u00e9es ramenees par une collectivit\u00e9", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146967}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068418.79408, "message": "il a fallu les extraire de differents outils/services", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146968}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068470.549901, "message": "qui est de permettre aux citoyen de mieux s'impliquer", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146974}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068490.3165121, "message": "s/investir/s'investir", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146976}, {"user_id": 13737, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068502.824388, "message": ":)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146978}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068832.091387, "message": "pour retirer un kbis", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147032}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068911.0650671, "message": "il ne va pas b\u00e9neficier", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147042}, {"user_id": 13737, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069132.462853, "message": "ben si on pousse ta logique \u00e0 l'extr\u00eame, on arrive \u00e0 \u00e7a", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147067}, {"user_id": 13737, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068271.536365, "message": "donc faut bien payer le pauvre stagiaire qui va copier/coller tout \u00e7a", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146940}, {"user_id": 13737, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068332.0466959, "message": "Dans la partie payante, tu as aussi le cot\u00e9 \"je couvre mes frais\" vs \"je me fais des sous\"", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146949}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068818.5570681, "message": "peut etre que la solution serait un cout d'acces unique", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147027}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068855.052531, "message": "en quoi est-ce benefique au citoyen?", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147034}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068903.847338, "message": "tu veux cetet donn\u00e9es tu paies X euros", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147040}, {"user_id": 13737, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068989.3098609, "message": "mais je me mettais dans la peau de david :)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147053}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070902.332489, "message": "il y aura un casse-t\u00eate sur la vie priv\u00e9e int\u00e9ressant lorsque la donn\u00e9e sociale va rencontrer la donn\u00e9e publique", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147288}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068284.397172, "message": "le cout \u00e0 disposition pour ceux qui sont capable de le traiter", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146941}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068286.9901719, "message": "Depuis quand les stagiaires de l'administration sont pay\u00e9s ? :)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146942}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068337.2267749, "message": "quels sont les formats qui sont propos\u00e9s aujourd'hui ? cvs, execl, pdf ?", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146950}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068346.784306, "message": "Dans ce cas il faut avoir une logique non pas de lib\u00e9ration mais de publication, \u00e0 ce moment l\u00e0 je comprends le surco\u00fbt", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146953}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068578.5144589, "message": "je pense que l'on voit une raison differente \u00e0 la liberation", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146987}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068585.0172019, "message": "toi tu places du cot\u00e9 du user", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146988}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068591.7501371, "message": "(encore duc oct\u00e9 gpl)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146989}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068594.2748871, "message": "je suis d'accord avec @benoitc mais c'est aussi la raison pour laquelle les politiques sont r\u00e9tissants \u00e0 publier", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146990}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068636.7763391, "message": "les cercles politiques n'aiment pas bcp la remise en cause qui peut d\u00e9couler de la transparence", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146993}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068778.0736279, "message": "et ps forcemment imput\u00e9 sur cette collecte/redistribution", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147020}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068863.9909141, "message": "le but d'une societe est de faire des profits", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147036}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069733.800993, "message": "on peu troller toute la nuit sur l'incomp\u00e9tence de l'administration mais restons sur la lib\u00e9ration des donn\u00e9es :)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147133}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069821.6290259, "message": "mais pq gratuiteemnt ?", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147144}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070031.755496, "message": "l'extraction et la distribution des matieres premeieres ont un coup", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147182}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070043.022187, "message": "pour moi le march\u00e9 de la don\u00e9ne c comme le petrole", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147185}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070063.078795, "message": "la copie du num\u00e9rique n'a pas de co\u00fbt, c'est la grosse diff\u00e9rence :)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147191}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068305.5685689, "message": "imo les donn\u00e9es doivent etre ouverte aux plus grand nombre de maniere lisible", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146945}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068348.8970971, "message": "alors que le but premier de l'open data est de fournir l'acces des donn\u00e9es au plus grand nombre pour leur permetre de les utiliser", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146954}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069257.908536, "message": "bah non", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147082}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068386.188807, "message": "et encore uen fois depends de c eque tu appelels brut", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146961}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069327.9190569, "message": "au vu des qq fichiers que j'ai ouvert une \u00e9dition aurait \u00e9t\u00e9 n\u00e9cessaire mais ils nt clairement \u00e9t\u00e9 publi\u00e9 sans", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147093}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070620.340457, "message": "j'attends de voir ce que va donner l'entretien, pour l'instant peu de notion de versionement dans les lib\u00e9rations que j'ai vu", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147260}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070648.54161, "message": "une donn\u00e9e devrait \u00eatre lib\u00e9r\u00e9e sur github mais c'est un autre d\u00e9bat :)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147265}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068641.124542, "message": "Les politiques sont encore dans une logique donn\u00e9es == pouvoir, alors que ce n'est plus vrai dans un r\u00e9seau o\u00f9 liens == pouvoir", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146994}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068940.936054, "message": "Une donn\u00e9e a une vie, son co\u00fbt doit d\u00e9pendre de sa fra\u00eecheur et de sa liaison avec d'autres sources", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147047}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069124.414417, "message": "moi \u00e7a me derange d'avoir finance une societe qui utilise des donn\u00e9es qui m'appartiennent collectivement \u00e0 son profit sans que la collectivit\u00e9 ne soit assur\u00e9 d'un retour \u00e9gal", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147065}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069185.997565, "message": "combien de donn\u00e9es peuvent etre rellement distribu\u00e9es sans \u00e9ition?", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147073}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069905.899188, "message": "l'argent du beurre: la collectivit\u00e9 qui a payer cette donn\u00e9e", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147159}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069924.719207, "message": "+1", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147166}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069980.6929779, "message": "elle en a", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147173}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069988.603857, "message": "si tu peux l'exploiter", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147174}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069992.2825551, "message": "c'est son interpr\u00e9tation qui en a une", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147176}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070409.952157, "message": "les rafineurs doivent mainetenant payer l'entretien", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147238}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070424.053807, "message": "\u00e7a ne les empeche pas de gagener lus", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147240}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070430.5233281, "message": "la valorisation rapporte tjrs plus", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147241}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070449.922013, "message": "alors elel doit rapporter de quoi payer l'entretien", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147243}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070456.0979371, "message": "pour en revenir \u00e0 la data", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147244}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071033.8492589, "message": "je ne sais pas si c une question de technos", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147302}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071059.443028, "message": "disons d'outils informatique", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147306}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071065.409349, "message": "l'acces \u00e0 cette donn\u00e9e meme sous forme papier (pauvre planete) est interessante pour de multiples groupes politiques aussi", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147307}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071115.2031231, "message": "et de tet fa\u00e7on oui depuis la nuit des temps l'information a une valeur, un pouvoir", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147310}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071131.591049, "message": "les premoiers outils de crypto existaient en mesopotamie", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147313}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071191.6841559, "message": "mais ouvert != gratuit", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147327}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071263.6379559, "message": "mais contre l'aspect gratuit de la chose quiu va forcememnt entrainer un appauvrissement de la source", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147336}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068700.4666951, "message": "la mairie estime \u00e0 raison que les donn\u00e9es ne lui appartiennent pas, elles appartiennent au citoyen", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146999}, {"user_id": 13737, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069637.688874, "message": "... d\u00e8s le d\u00e9but", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147123}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068504.128242, "message": "Les citoyens hackers sont malheureusement trop rares...", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146979}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069189.5669661, "message": "\u00e9dition;", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147074}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069269.4967201, "message": "liaisons avec d'autres dossiers", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147084}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069275.37362, "message": "nominatives", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147085}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069280.0136001, "message": "etc", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147086}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069401.77163, "message": "(c me\u00eae un march\u00e9)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147103}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069797.0316529, "message": "la valorisation n'est pas financ\u00e9e, elle est justement incit\u00e9e par la mise \u00e0 disposition des donn\u00e9es", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147141}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069995.8666101, "message": "c'est une matiere premiere", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147178}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070372.0974841, "message": "normal c eux qui avait investit dans les puits tt \u00e7a", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147232}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070555.837316, "message": "tu ne peux pas ignorer l'entretien", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147256}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070561.394531, "message": "ds ce cas, ton propos est de laisser faire le march\u00e9 qui va s'equilibre sur un modele viable par toutes les parties ?", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147257}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070573.9361589, "message": "et dsl soutenir l'inovation n'est qu'un pretexte pour avoir qqch de gratuit", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147258}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070682.3873839, "message": "et bon", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147270}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068420.9578531, "message": "La lib\u00e9ration est politique, la publication rend la donn\u00e9e exploitable", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146969}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068454.842907, "message": "non car la d\u00e9cision politique est parfois la plus dure \u00e0 mener :)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146972}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068680.3950911, "message": "je ne pense pas que c'est le reel probleme ici, dans le cadre de nante", "group_id": 4555, "id": 146997}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068716.5008211, "message": "elles ont cout\u00e9s aux citoyens", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147001}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068834.416774, "message": "L'exploitation des donn\u00e9es permet de valoriser le territoire et devient donc b\u00e9n\u00e9fique aux citoyens", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147033}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069047.0699191, "message": "\u00c7a ne me d\u00e9range pas de payer pour un service int\u00e9ressant \u00e0 partir des donn\u00e9es publi\u00e9es gratuitement par ma ville", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147058}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069213.9291649, "message": "pour faire le service public", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147076}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069311.6125619, "message": "(en qq sorte)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147089}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069363.1073229, "message": "oui il faut avoir essay\u00e9 de faire quelque chose avec les donn\u00e9es lib\u00e9r\u00e9es pour mieux se rendre compte...", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147098}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069395.752492, "message": "bah je joues pas mal avec les donn\u00e9es hein, et cela ne m'embetre pas de payer pour", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147102}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069415.462786, "message": "dans le cadre du public le pb se pose differemment", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147104}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069450.38853, "message": "reste le cout de la mise \u00e0 disposition : edition, hebergement, gestion des demandes", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147106}, {"user_id": 13737, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069518.7907431, "message": "vu que cela ne conduit pas \u00e0 une augmentation des impots, ni \u00e0 ce que la mairie ou autre se fasse des sous...", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147111}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069542.9150381, "message": "dans l'id\u00e9al il faudrait que \u00e7a soit pris en compte en amont", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147112}, {"user_id": 13737, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069989.5661311, "message": "sinon tu joue le passager clandestin ; \u00e7a t'arrangerait certes mais pas la collectivit\u00e9", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147175}, {"user_id": 13737, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070003.7584059, "message": "si elle n'a pas de valeur, alors tu ne l'utiliseras pas :)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147179}, {"user_id": 13737, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070074.6439581, "message": "comme je disais en SSII : si tu mets de la merde en entr\u00e9e, tu auras au mieux de la merde structur\u00e9e en sortie mais \u00e7a reste de la merde :)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147194}, {"user_id": 13737, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070260.6594291, "message": "surtout que rien n'est gratuit :)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147212}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069060.78211, "message": "de toute fa\u00e7on ma ville n'aurait eu aucun moyen de d\u00e9velopper ce service", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147060}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069166.900162, "message": "@benoitc tu pr\u00e9f\u00e8res que ces donn\u00e9es ne soient pas exploit\u00e9es ?", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147071}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069172.3714089, "message": "et encore une foiis cette lib\u00e9rtion n'est pas vraiment gratiuote", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147072}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069228.3222749, "message": "donc le pb ne se pose pas vraiement en ces termes", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147077}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069262.8482659, "message": "donn\u00e9es confidentielles", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147083}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069782.4996631, "message": "l'acces aux donn\u00e9es est en soit suffisant", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147139}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069886.2755439, "message": "et la cremiere en prime", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147154}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069892.3019049, "message": "le beurre = data", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147156}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069962.223027, "message": "rien n'empeche d'avoir un credit data pour les entreprises innovantes", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147168}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069972.9122961, "message": "(et je parle bien de *cr\u00e9dit*)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147170}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069973.3644669, "message": "non la donn\u00e9e n'a aucune valeur brute", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147171}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070062.3661849, "message": "\u00e0 chaque point tu paies", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147190}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070211.4396141, "message": "perso je pense qu'une societe qui a besoin qu qqch soit gratuit ppour commencer est non viable", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147205}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070320.2286389, "message": "si tu prend le p\u00e9trole en exemple, regarde le rapport brut / essence \u00e0 a pompe", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147224}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070333.1543579, "message": "toute la valeur est ds la transformation", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147225}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070524.0990081, "message": "en vue de trouve run accord", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147254}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070620.5861249, "message": "@davidpaccoud mon propos c'est plus de dire que ce cout d'entretien ne doit pas etre neglig\u00e9e quand on parle dd'ouverture", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147261}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070632.539355, "message": "je suis d'accord pour dire que l'innovation n'a pas besoin de gratuit", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147262}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070839.877089, "message": "bah ce google va tt faire pour forcer le gratuit", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147283}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070982.712019, "message": "oui et en reviens \u00e0 la d\u00e9fiance des politiques vis \u00e0 vis d'Internet et du pouvoir qu'il donne aux citoyen", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147296}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068801.4464631, "message": "c un direct retour au cotpue,", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147025}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068804.073812, "message": "oui", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147026}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068831.6825981, "message": "et pas un gros ch\u00e8que pour avoir le droit de g\u00e9n\u00e9rer le 1er centime", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147031}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068893.0296121, "message": "imo faire payer un cout unique serait la solution", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147038}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068899.6920979, "message": "Le citoyen va b\u00e9n\u00e9ficier d'un service de proximit\u00e9, peut-\u00eatre personnalis\u00e9", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147039}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068914.522552, "message": "il va payer pour", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147043}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068928.3327551, "message": "il va en profiter", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147044}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298068934.169863, "message": "maybe", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147045}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069027.409482, "message": "@davidbgk vcertaines donn\u00e9es d'il y a 40 ans ont encore tte leur valeur", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147055}, {"user_id": 13737, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069029.4662731, "message": "si des lors que le citoyen en b\u00e9n\u00e9ficie/profite, alors ce doit \u00eatre gratuit, y a pas grand monde qui va faire quoi que ce soit (que ce soit avec ces donn\u00e9es ou je ne sais quoi)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147056}, {"user_id": 13737, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069059.3366859, "message": "d'ailleurs david, tu ne seras pas pay\u00e9 pour le site de la mairie d'Arles car en tant que citoyen, tu vas en b\u00e9n\u00e9ficier :-)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147059}, {"user_id": 13737, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069088.800406, "message": "(si tant est que tu le r\u00e9alises)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147061}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069304.948956, "message": "chaque donn\u00e9es est aussi \"sign\u00e9es\"", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147087}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069392.330658, "message": "tu veux dire \"propre\" ?", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147101}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069577.4234769, "message": "pq payer pour 1% de la population en amont alors que ce peut etre prelev\u00e9e directement", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147116}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069679.586411, "message": "en amont oui par contre il pourrait y avoir un process d' homog\u00e9n\u00e9isation", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147127}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069794.6828201, "message": "\u00e0 toi de suffisamment innover pour payer l'acces", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147140}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069816.8025091, "message": "les donn\u00e9es doivent etre mises \u00e0 dispos", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147143}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069842.08201, "message": "si t'ajoutes qu'il faille payer les donn\u00e9es \u00e7a donne franchement moins envie", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147147}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069878.1466689, "message": "tu veux le beurre", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147152}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069909.827843, "message": "et qui va te payer toi", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147161}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069913.1406071, "message": "la cremeiere", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147163}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070375.237093, "message": "@nsteinmetz ou de l'entretenir aussi, y'a 2 bouts sur une lorgnette :p", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147233}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070379.864783, "message": "mais ceux ui entretenaient le systeme", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147234}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070399.697475, "message": "donc boum choc petrolier", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147237}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070462.5058689, "message": "il ya le ranfinage ok", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147246}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070512.0440519, "message": "@davidpaccoud c exactement ce qui est en train de se passer en ce moment au niveau donn\u00e9es", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147252}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070677.7040091, "message": "@davidpaccoud mon petit doigt me dis qu'ils arrivent", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147269}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070693.071883, "message": "le march\u00e9 de la donn\u00e9e c'est 90 Milliards / ans", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147274}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070695.5155351, "message": "de $", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147275}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069092.9800229, "message": "@nsteinmetz c'est pas du tout mon propos", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147062}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069135.565383, "message": "ou sinon \u00e9gal , direct", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147068}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069204.3067579, "message": "@davidbgk eles sont \u00e9t\u00e9 exploit\u00e9es", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147075}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069238.1591489, "message": "la question ets plutot que faire de l'extra", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147078}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069251.148355, "message": "on a des don\u00e9nes qui * interessent* d'autres", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147080}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069251.953927, "message": "si elles ont eu besoin d'\u00eatre \u00e9dit\u00e9es pour \u00eatre distribu\u00e9es c'est qu'il y a d\u00e9j\u00e0 un probl\u00e8me en amont \u00e0 mon avis", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147081}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069312.4519801, "message": "justement je me plains souvent des donn\u00e9es qui sont lib\u00e9r\u00e9es sans aucun lien possible :)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147090}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069321.6943159, "message": "il faut virerr les noms des fonctionnaires etc", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147091}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069429.1393859, "message": "car la collecte a \u00e9t\u00e9 pay\u00e9e", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147105}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069491.3019819, "message": "en y reflechissant cela ne devrait etre que \u00e7a", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147108}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069500.647666, "message": "et en effet pas index\u00e9 sur le ca", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147109}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069559.339185, "message": "on va collecter des donn\u00e9es, pr\u00e9voyons un budget pour les publier \u00e0 la fin", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147113}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069590.438972, "message": "un cout en amont est tjrs plus important en plus", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147118}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069617.9055071, "message": "en plus l'ex anglais montre bien que cela ne peut \u00eatre centralis\u00e9", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147121}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069747.8335021, "message": "si ton innovation repose sur du gratuit elle ne vaux pas grand chose", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147137}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069881.725091, "message": "l'argent du beurre", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147153}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070047.8600681, "message": "il ya l'extraction", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147186}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070051.7921109, "message": "la distribution", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147187}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070055.104013, "message": "et les rafineurs", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147189}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070344.6548259, "message": "je prend l'expme du petrole parce que c exactement la raison du choc petrolier", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147226}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070391.1952801, "message": "ou presque", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147236}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070414.023633, "message": "et l'extraction", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147239}, {"user_id": 13737, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069626.007627, "message": "plutot qu'un budget c'est une d\u00e9marche de publication qu'il faut que les gens aient en t\u00eate", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147122}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069693.9718859, "message": "tout d\u00e9pend de ton calcul de retour sur investissement de l'innovation relative \u00e0 ces donn\u00e9es, pas s\u00fbr que ce soit plus int\u00e9ressant de faire payer la disposition si \u00e7a freine l'innovation", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147129}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069700.577914, "message": "ct pas cens\u00e9 etre le role du plan informatique", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147131}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069709.7372429, "message": "enfin je me rappelel plus le nom de ce truc", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147132}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069771.7751789, "message": "l'innovation ne dot pas etre financ\u00e9e par la collectivit\u00e9, elle doit juste etre incit\u00e9e", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147138}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069809.2360971, "message": "je suis d'accord", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147142}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069825.5900011, "message": "c'est un gros travail de faire quelque chose d'int\u00e9ressant \u00e0 partir de donn\u00e9es", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147145}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069828.166307, "message": "@benoitc je vois pas pourquoi. Tu peux avoir un moyen de traiter des donn\u00e9es gratuites qui leurs ajoute une grosse + value", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147146}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069870.912987, "message": "davidpaccoud c'est un peu l'histoire de la cremiere", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147151}, {"user_id": 13737, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069890.2564249, "message": "@davidbgk mais ton travail est impossible sans les donn\u00e9es... ca reste ta substantique moelle", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147155}, {"user_id": 13737, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298069916.9915881, "message": "donc cela a une valeur pour toi et tu devrais donc \u00eatre pr\u00eat pour le payer", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147164}, {"user_id": 13737, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070224.243717, "message": "+1", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147207}, {"user_id": 13737, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070371.3706141, "message": "ben tu pourrais avoir pareil avec les donn\u00e9es : tu payes \"un peu\" et tu vends \"cher\"", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147231}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070387.495923, "message": "les pays producteurs ne recevaient rien", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147235}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070537.2181709, "message": "enfin c mon opinion", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147255}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070645.2688479, "message": "elle a besoin d'un BP", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147264}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070784.9590819, "message": "@benoitc des donn\u00e9es publiques/priv\u00e9es ?", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147277}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070814.7627399, "message": "cf en france l'ign ou l'insee", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147281}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070845.1484771, "message": "ensuite ce sera google", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147284}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071150.5112381, "message": "un pouvoir qui etait confin\u00e9 dans certains cercles", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147314}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070071.6028309, "message": "ce que tu essaies de faire c comme en 74", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147193}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070079.3308301, "message": "tu essaies d'exploiter les producteurs", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147195}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070089.255127, "message": "bah derriere le numerique il ya des hommes", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147200}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070186.79914, "message": "@davidpaccoud ct un exemple :)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147203}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070264.9672079, "message": "@benoitc Peut \u00eatre mais c'est assez r\u00e9v\u00e9lateur de syst\u00e8mes administratifs contre-productifs dont on devrait se d\u00e9barrasser au plus vite", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147214}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070273.766439, "message": "je sais, je reve", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147215}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070358.3396771, "message": "les rafineurs \u00e0 la base se servait gratuiteemnt", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147229}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070438.332823, "message": "et si c de la valorisation", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147242}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070472.7284241, "message": "mais ce coup de collecte, mis \u00e0 disposition, edition", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147247}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070474.338939, "message": "c'est pas tout a fait comparable parce que l'economie qui existait deja autour a fait que les acteurs se sont concert\u00e9s pour trouver un accord", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147248}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070477.0026951, "message": "c de l'entretien", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147250}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070517.433846, "message": "c'est un raport de force", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147253}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070796.795851, "message": "la donn\u00e9e de matiere generale", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147278}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070808.4227459, "message": "les 2 sont svt imbriqu\u00e9es anyway", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147280}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070978.387471, "message": "et sans cette donn\u00e9es brute tu ne peux croiser", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147295}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070084.0681541, "message": "@benoitc Oh, non pas encore un cr\u00e9dit machin Y'en a marre du tu payes sauf si tu d\u00e9poses un dossier en 4 exemplaires qui fait vivre 2 fonctionnaires pour avoir un cr\u00e9dit ds 2 ans", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147197}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070187.276588, "message": "le co\u00fbt de distribution est n\u00e9gligeable vu le traffic", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147204}, {"user_id": 13737, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070309.758395, "message": "\u00e7a permet de lutter contre le chomage mais on d\u00e9vie du sujet :)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147217}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070817.7965319, "message": "pour l'instant j'ai plut\u00f4t l'impression qu'il va y avoir besoin d'un google mais \u00e7a m'emb\u00eate de dire \u00e7a publiquement :)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147282}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071097.0279491, "message": "http://www.skyrock.fm/bellanger/la_convergence_c_est_le_code.pdf", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147308}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071268.5573521, "message": "je suis pour l'utilisation des donn\u00e9es", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147338}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071329.0898931, "message": "le code sous bsd est plus r\u00e9exploit\u00e9 que le code sous gpl", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147357}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071417.317045, "message": "si tu paies pour t'enrichier ou est le probleme.", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147371}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071451.64691, "message": "et l\u00e0 bon tu paies pour entretnir la source", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147384}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071484.4270101, "message": "car tu garanties l'independance de la source", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147389}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071491.355186, "message": "heh", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147390}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071498.3955851, "message": "l'entretien d'un source publique est le r\u00f4le de l'\u00c9tat que l'on paye avec nos imp\u00f4ts", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147391}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071510.529325, "message": "ou du moins oui", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147398}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071530.959043, "message": "bon laissons de c\u00f4t\u00e9 la privatisation des sources...", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147402}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071612.1723061, "message": "qui s'ocucpe de maintenir la neutralit\u00e9 des sources de logiciels", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147420}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071669.597121, "message": "explique", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147433}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070920.911622, "message": "le plus important dans tout \u00e7a c'est que je ouisse avoir acc\u00e8s pour mon usage *personnel* aux donn\u00e9es publiques, pour en tant que citoyen savoir ce qui se passe", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147290}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070943.234998, "message": "t pour moi c'est cela que devrait etr ela volont\u00e9 politique de d'ouvrir ces donn\u00e9es", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147292}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071000.1061749, "message": "et apparamment tu n'as pas les moyens d'extraire cette donn\u00e9e par toiu m\u00eame", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147297}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071021.4948659, "message": "du moins \u00e0 ceux qui maitrice les technos et qui deviennent des contre-pouvoirs forts et incontrolables", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147298}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071356.620033, "message": "mais il est moins ouvert", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147362}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298070958.40307, "message": "comme je le disais, si tu n'as pas les moyens technique de croiser cette donn\u00e9e, \u00e7a ne te servira \u00e0 rien une donn\u00e9e brute", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147293}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071533.0316429, "message": "si tu consideres que la donn\u00e9es mise \u00e0 dispo n'est pa seditee, que le cout de gestion ne vaut trien", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147403}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071575.042578, "message": "plus de qualitatif \u00e0 terme", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147410}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071598.608376, "message": "disosn que pour moi c comme payer la fondation apache", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147416}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071599.845263, "message": "@davidpaccoud t'as pas un droit de r\u00e9serve toi ? ;)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147417}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071284.2996969, "message": "oui bah tu es gpl", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147345}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071290.238061, "message": ":p", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147348}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071296.166487, "message": "au contraire je dirais :)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147349}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071398.7405469, "message": "payer n'est pas une contrainte", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147368}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071408.9803541, "message": "esp\u00e8ce de riche :p", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147369}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071418.679003, "message": "?", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147374}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071449.065196, "message": "tu prends un risque inutile", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147383}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071470.6041131, "message": "et de concurrence", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147387}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071503.5463409, "message": "non", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147394}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071536.277775, "message": "c de l'extra", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147404}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071543.130976, "message": "qui est en sup de la mission publique", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147405}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071566.7069969, "message": "et bon si tu paies cette source tu peux demander plus de garantie", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147408}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071647.0995481, "message": "mmmh il doit y avoir une mauvaise connexion entre 2 de mes neurones", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147429}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071650.0996239, "message": "mais parfois tu te rend compte que ibm peut inflechir apache", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147430}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071684.7455649, "message": "@davidpaccoud anywa d'ou l'interet d'avoir un coiut unique", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147435}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071160.2217901, "message": "et gard\u00e9 jalousement", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147316}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071184.0065711, "message": "oui d'ou se battre pour l'ouverture", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147326}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071199.099297, "message": "et ouvert != libre", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147328}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071227.0949609, "message": "je suis pour la libert\u00e9 et l'ouvertur des donn\u00e9es", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147329}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071277.672523, "message": "ou alors il faut trouver un systeme qui gere l'entretien", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147342}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071287.9651079, "message": "moi je suis bsd", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147347}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071299.7859211, "message": "bah non", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147351}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071303.6774459, "message": "le copy left", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147353}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071308.7639339, "message": "c'exst exactement la gpl", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147354}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071317.789566, "message": "le pouvoir aux utilisateurs", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147355}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071344.077198, "message": "r\u00e9utilis\u00e9*", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147358}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071351.102495, "message": "il ets plus libre", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147361}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071383.005177, "message": "je parlais d'utilisation, c'est toi qui essaye de rendre la donn\u00e9e moins libre en ajoutant une contrainte :)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147364}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071465.3995061, "message": "Benoit voudrait une double licence en fonction de l'utilisation qui est faite des donn\u00e9es", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147385}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071465.9433889, "message": "entretenir la source est une garantie de qualit\u00e9e", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147386}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071769.7900219, "message": "j'ai un curateur de donn\u00e9e \u00e0 releaser avant de partir au pycon", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147453}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071782.01091, "message": "night'", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147457}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071425.6671751, "message": "Wooo !!", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147376}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071480.9160941, "message": "si j'ai bien compris :)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147388}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071509.5533979, "message": "c'est une vision un poil optimiste \u00e7a", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147397}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071572.646997, "message": "on paye bcp trop de monde dont l'ind\u00e9pendance est... discutable", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147409}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071624.2938211, "message": "@davidbgk et pourquoi \u00e7a ?", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147426}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071732.665484, "message": "ah oui, biensur", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147446}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071775.5169489, "message": "ouais pareil, trop de r\u00e9flexion aujourd'hui, j'ai le cerveau fatigu\u00e9", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147455}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071792.806469, "message": "Bonne nuit", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147463}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071709.764818, "message": "un coit unique ?? :-D", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147437}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071720.860914, "message": "co\u00fbt", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147442}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071746.7816169, "message": "\"Twitter est en surcapacit\u00e9.\" et voil\u00e0 d\u00e8s qu'on a une discussion int\u00e9ressante :)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147448}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071749.1846709, "message": "anyway moi je vais me coucher", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147450}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071716.36023, "message": "cout :p", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147439}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071718.8935461, "message": "haha", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147440}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298071788.964066, "message": "'n8", "group_id": 4555, "id": 147462}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298207045.3947971, "message": "je ne vois pas en quoi mes impots permettrais de financer la creation d'une societe que cette personne n'a pas les moyens de lancer", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153337}, {"user_id": 11402, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298203175.5834961, "message": "Pour r\u00e9pondre rapidement, il y \u00e0 plusieurs choses \u00e0 distinguer, et c'est important de le faire pour ne pas mettre toutes les donn\u00e9es dans le m\u00eame panier.\n\nD'un cot\u00e9 on \u00e0 les donn\u00e9es publiques, qui devraient etre mise \u00e0 disposition publiquement gratuitement, ne serais-ce que pour en faciliter l'acc\u00e8s. On peut imaginer d'autres business model qui permettraient \u00e0 ces donn\u00e9es d'\u00eatre entretenues (impots? pubs? subventions?). Le gros enjeu derri\u00e8re l'acc\u00e8s gratuit de ces donn\u00e9es c'est: faciliter leur acc\u00e8s. Comment tu peux payer pour avoir des donn\u00e9es dont tu ne connais pas le potentiel? Mettre une barri\u00e8re \u00e0 l'entr\u00e9e est superflu dans ce cas.\n\nDe l'autre cot\u00e9, si on prends des donn\u00e9es publiques telles que des resultats de recherche scientifique, je comprends qu'il faille payer: tu paye le travail de recherche justement.\n\nIl faut effectivement penser \u00e0 payer les frais d'infrastructure d'une mani\u00e8re ou d'une autre, mais pourquoi de pas faire payer cette infrastructure par l'\u00e9tat ? N'est-ce pas son r\u00f4le de faire le catalyseur et le facilitateur d'\u00e9change de donn\u00e9es ?", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153085}, {"user_id": 1841, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298205812.688026, "message": "nan mais c'est un exemple. je pense qu'au niveau ponction fiscale en France, on est bien servi \u2014 et c'est tr\u00e8s bien tant qu'on en a pour ce qu'on paye.", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153200}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298206078.4966049, "message": "pour avoir plus de societes qui flanchent ?", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153239}, {"user_id": 1841, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298206095.6123359, "message": "histoire, genre, de favoriser l'innovation par les petites structures qui n'ont pas 30 ans \u00e0 passer \u00e0 monter des dossiers de demandes de subvention chez kafka ?", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153244}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298206189.3319769, "message": "tout le mond e\u00e0 le droit de creer une societe", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153253}, {"user_id": 1841, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298206214.938782, "message": "je trouve que l'\u00c9tat devrait donner tous les moyens aux gens (citoyens, entreprises) de cr\u00e9er de la valeur dans le pays, et ce de fa\u00e7on \u00e9quitable", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153255}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298206215.4939809, "message": "je re anyway :)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153256}, {"user_id": 1841, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298206349.1093221, "message": "ametaireau> KISS. Acc\u00e8s gratuit pour tout le monde. La comp\u00e9tition doit se faire sur la pertinence des r\u00e9sultats concrets. L\u00e0 \u00e0 contr\u00f4ler les revenus g\u00e9n\u00e9r\u00e9s par l'exploitation des donn\u00e9es faites par les soci\u00e9t\u00e9 on va cr\u00e9er yet another bloated procedure.", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153261}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298205165.3759339, "message": "+s", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153162}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298205839.6159561, "message": "je veux dire il ya des circuits financiers pour financer une activit\u00e9 d\u00e9j\u00e0", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153204}, {"user_id": 14031, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298204323.7503281, "message": "Dans le cas de Nantes, le probl\u00e8me n'est pas paiement direct ou imp\u00f4t, puisque c'est gratuit pour un usage non commercial. Donc l'entretien des donn\u00e9es est fait de toutes fa\u00e7ons pour l'\u00e9ducation ou l'utilisation par un autre service public.\n\nDu coup le raisonnement pour faire payer les usages priv\u00e9s rel\u00e8ve selon moi de faire une deuxi\u00e8me taxe (puisque l'entreprise qui exploitent les donn\u00e9es payent d\u00e9j\u00e0 des imp\u00f4ts et des cotisations.)\n\nJe pense que \u00e7a ne p\u00e9nalisera que les petites entreprises pour qui le co\u00fbt d'acquisition pourra appara\u00eetre relativement \u00e9lev\u00e9 sans \u00eatre s\u00fbr de r\u00e9cup\u00e9rer son investissement. Par contre j'imagine que les gros instituts de sondage ou les google ne seront gu\u00e8re g\u00ean\u00e9s par ce coup d'entr\u00e9e.", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153122}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298204479.8005381, "message": "la mise \u00e0 disposoition des comptes de l'etat est d\u00e9j\u00e0 budgete dans le cadre de la cour de scomptes", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153125}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298204489.3017361, "message": "donc le proble\u00f9me ne se pose pas \u00e0 ce niveau", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153128}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298204513.4504809, "message": "suis en train de prerparer un texte qui resume ma pens\u00e9e", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153130}, {"user_id": 11402, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298208308.170543, "user_id": 6415}], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298204278.1298831, "message": "Payer pour acceder aux comptes de l'\u00e9tat par exemple, me semble abb\u00e9rant.", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153121}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298205772.7697289, "message": "l'ursaffe tc c independant du cout li\u00e9 \u00e0 ton activit\u00e9", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153195}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298205915.7109129, "message": "si tu as une activit\u00e9 tu t'autto finance", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153216}, {"user_id": 1841, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298206157.658165, "message": "et si l'\u00e9galit\u00e9 des chances comprenait aussi, en 2011, l'\u00e9galit\u00e9 d'entreprendre ?", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153251}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298206180.30668, "message": "Pourqui egalit\u00e9 consiste forcememnt \u00e0 mettre tout le monde \u00e0 0", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153252}, {"user_id": 11402, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298204792.467648, "message": "On peut penser \u00e0 une taxation graduelle en fonction du profit r\u00e9alis\u00e9 pour ne pas p\u00e9naliser les petites entreprises justement. Ca me semble r\u00e9aliste.", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153154}, {"user_id": 14031, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298204907.1495399, "message": "@ametaireau En fait pour la recherche il y a d\u00e9j\u00e0 une tradition de partage de l'information. En tout cas, je travaille actuellement sur un projet d'open data de donn\u00e9es scientifique et il n'est pas question de faire payer. Le fait de partager les donn\u00e9es a \u00e9t\u00e9 budget\u00e9 d\u00e8s le d\u00e9part.\n\nPour une taxation graduelle en fonction du profit, j'y ai pens\u00e9 (et j'imagine que nos \u00e9diles aussi) mais je crains l'usage \u00e0 gaz comme on sait si bien en pondre\u2026", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153160}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298205806.103132, "message": "pourquoi la soci\u00e9t\u00e9 devrait-elle t'aider \u00e0 financer ton activit\u00e9?", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153198}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298205965.5195301, "message": "normalement dans un bp, le cout d'acquisition des donn\u00e9es est deja compris", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153223}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298206057.6864679, "message": "\u00e7a peut etre aussi demander un pr\u00eat d'honneur \u00e0 la soci\u00e9t\u00e9, demander \u00e0 ses potes de t'aider", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153235}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298206129.3855751, "message": "euh si tu vas \u00e0 sf, ou meme juste en anglettere des societes de 3 personnes se creent ts les jours", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153246}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298206138.00248, "message": "et peuvent trouver le financement adequat", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153247}, {"user_id": 1841, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298206395.9005351, "message": "Et encore une fois, de toutes fa\u00e7ons, les soci\u00e9t\u00e9s FR qui se gaveront paieront de toute fa\u00e7on des imp\u00f4ts en cons\u00e9quence, donc \u00e7a reviendra au peuple d'une mani\u00e8re ou d'une autre.", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153265}, {"user_id": 14057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298205331.118232, "message": "et merci @ametaireau de nous avoir rappel\u00e9 qu'ici on a pas de limite de 140 caract\u00e8res ;)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153168}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298205163.23171, "message": "ceci dit dan sla recherche ce n'est possible que parce que d'embl\u00e9e les donn\u00e9es sont faite pour \u00eatre partag\u00e9es entre chercheur", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153161}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298205172.8495381, "message": "du moins dans la plupart des cas", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153163}, {"user_id": 14057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298205285.5785379, "message": "en effet, une partie de la question/r\u00e9ponse est de savoir si les donn\u00e9es ont d\u00e9j\u00e0 \u00e9t\u00e9 pens\u00e9es pour \u00eatre lib\u00e9r\u00e9es, ce qui n'est souvent pas le cas, et ce qui entra\u00eene donc le surco\u00fbt dont parle @benoitc. Si cette probl\u00e9matique est prise en compte d\u00e8s le d\u00e9but, la question du financement ou de la vente de ces donn\u00e9es devient moindre.", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153166}, {"user_id": 1841, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298205890.6542499, "message": "des circuits financiers pour financer une activit\u00e9 ? donc il faut passer par des circuits qui vont financer les co\u00fbts d'utilisation des donn\u00e9es ? KAFKALAND SPOTTED", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153212}, {"user_id": 1841, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298206061.5999479, "message": "et si on diminuait le co\u00fbt du ticket d'entr\u00e9e dans les business plans ?", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153236}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298206141.4927981, "message": "c un autre debat", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153248}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298207020.7605879, "message": "dire que cela encouragerait l'innovation est assez malsain", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153335}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298207145.7993121, "message": "mais de l'encadrer de maniere \u00e0 ce qu'elle existe", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153346}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298207786.997247, "message": "rarer sont les societes qui levent en amor\u00e7age", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153382}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298207799.373014, "message": "et c souvent au prix de ta libert\u00e9 d'entreprendre", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153384}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298205618.9709101, "message": "je re dans 30mn, je finis c epost :)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153185}, {"user_id": 1841, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298205733.071233, "message": "c'est un peu comme IRC ici, on peut troller ? bon alors imaginons, je suis une pme, je souhaite faire un peu de r&d en utilisant des donn\u00e9es lib\u00e9r\u00e9es qui peut \u00e9ventuellement d\u00e9boucher sur une application commerciale, genre app iphone \u00e0 .79cents ou genre. je vais payer ? je paye d\u00e9j\u00e0 l'IS, l'URSSAF, la CFE, mon RSI, les charges patronales, j'en passe et des meilleures. Je vais devoir EN PLUS payer pour exploiter des donn\u00e9es publiques ? d'ailleurs, on a les conditions financi\u00e8res sous le coude ? histoire juste de savoir de quoi on parle concr\u00e8tement.", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153192}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298205781.938668, "message": "c'est ce qui paie ta s\u00e9curit\u00e9 sociale", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153196}, {"user_id": 1841, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298205844.376513, "message": "parceque je vais potentiellement cr\u00e9er de la valeur, des emplois, payer plus d'imp\u00f4ts sur mes b\u00e9n\u00e9fices ?", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153205}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298205908.3353851, "message": "non", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153213}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298205937.061461, "message": "si tu n'as pas les moyens de demarrer tu dois l\u00e0 passer par un circuit financier of course", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153218}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298205997.989758, "message": "je finis mon poste , je serais plus clair dans qqs minutes", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153229}, {"user_id": 1841, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298206021.870985, "message": "c'est quoi un circuit financier ? les assedics ? la franc-ma\u00e7onnerie ? coucher avec un trader ? je manque de billes l\u00e0", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153232}, {"user_id": 11402, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298206244.7238779, "message": "@n1k0 on peut tr\u00e8s bien penser \u00e0 faire payer uniquement les personnes qui r\u00e9usissent \u00e0 se faire des sous avec. Et on peut surement laisser l'acc\u00e8s libre dans une certaine mesure (puis faire payer les gros consommateurs de donn\u00e9es).", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153258}, {"user_id": 11402, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298206506.980237, "message": "ouais effectivement, l'id\u00e9e est l\u00e0 (m\u00eame si l'exemple d'application est probablement bloated comme tu le souligne :)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153289}, {"user_id": 11402, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298206539.2889719, "message": "moi j'ai poney, a+", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153293}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298207121.502933, "message": "le role d'une societe n'est pas d'aider une competition pour moi anyway", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153344}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298207728.6602371, "message": "bah", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153376}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298207735.1628971, "message": "une soci\u00e9t\u00e9 \u00e0 crere coute 1 euro", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153377}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298207745.978514, "message": "(+300 de frais de dossiers....\u00e0)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153378}, {"user_id": 1841, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298206513.4624121, "message": "bon aller j'ai piscine, je passe en /away :)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153290}, {"user_id": 1841, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298206440.565362, "message": "La limite \u00e9tant comme le soulignait benoitc l'exploitation de donn\u00e9es publiques FR par des entreprises qui ne payent pas leur imp\u00f4ts en France ; c'est la seule exception o\u00f9 je comprendrai qu'on demande une compensation financi\u00e8re.", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153280}, {"user_id": 1841, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298206469.5180359, "message": "mais putain les mecs, \"nos emplettes sont nos emplois\" (ouais, bon, fail \u2014 mais c'est pas si con au fond)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153286}, {"user_id": 14031, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298206592.0972149, "message": "@n1k0 En fait j'y avais pens\u00e9 aussi que c'\u00e9tait pour faire payer Google (et c'est dans l'air du temps chez nos dirigeants en +)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153300}, {"user_id": 14031, "stars": [{"date_created": 1298211018.825587, "user_id": 6415}, {"date_created": 1298927406.830373, "user_id": 14031}], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298207708.341392, "message": "Je crois que \u00e7a se rapporte \u00e0 un m\u00eame qui tourne pas mal sur le web actuellement: aux US, tout est fait pour qu'une soci\u00e9t\u00e9 se lance, avec un coup d'entr\u00e9e (formalit\u00e9s\u2026) le plus faible possible. Des dizaines de projets sont lanc\u00e9s ainsi, la plupart se plante rapidement mais quelques unes deviennent des g\u00e9ants. C'est m\u00eame \u00e9tonnant que les US qui sont aussi cr\u00e9ationnistes aient une \u00e9conomie aussi darwinienne. \n\nEn France on a tendance \u00e0 ne donner qu'une chance, donc faut \u00eatre s\u00fbr de son coup et en cons\u00e9quence la plupart des gens ne prenne pas de risque. \n\nC'est un peu le m\u00eame probl\u00e8me ici avec les donn\u00e9es publiques j'ai l'impression.\n\nUn exemple d'article (mais j'en ai vu passer plusieurs ces derniers jours) http://www.letudiant.fr/jobsstages/creation-entreprise/facebook-aurait-il-pu-etre-cree-sur-un-campus-francais-16519.html", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153375}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298207773.300617, "message": "le plus gros probleme surtout c'est que le systeme de financement en france est vraiment pauvre", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153381}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298208976.8447869, "message": "laquelle?", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153508}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298209022.9622049, "message": "en fait je me rend compte que ces donn\u00e9es sont peut-\u00eatre d\u00e9j\u00e0 extraites", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153511}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298210163.970989, "message": "heh", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153583}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298207070.098845, "message": "pq bon les charges sont aussi proportionnelles \u00e0 tes gains", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153339}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298207079.543853, "message": "et plus tu ganes plus leur cout est marginal", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153340}, {"user_id": 14031, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298209369.139528, "message": "@davidpaccoud C'est mon fond de biologiste de l'\u00e9volution qui refait surface !", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153549}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298209651.093349, "message": "oui....", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153576}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298209021.0774479, "message": "Quelle remarque ?", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153510}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298209284.8678031, "message": "Si on voulait vraiment suivre ton raisonnement, il faudrait faire une diff\u00e9rence entre les donn\u00e9es brutes et celles qui sont d\u00e9j\u00e0 valoris\u00e9es", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153525}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298208955.618161, "message": "@nautilebleu Ta remarque sur l'\u00e9conomie darwinienne d'un pays de cr\u00e9ationnistes m'a bien fait rire :)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153505}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298209029.8184011, "message": "ou le devrait", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153512}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298209079.836432, "message": "Le dernier message de @nautilebleu : \"C'est m\u00eame \u00e9tonnant que les US qui sont aussi cr\u00e9ationnistes aient une \u00e9conomie aussi darwinienne.\"", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153516}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298209681.8258381, "message": "enfin si \u00e7a reste des formats document\u00e9s pourquoi pas", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153577}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298210569.1145821, "message": "bon bon ce post va \u00eatre long", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153588}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298209035.297812, "message": "oui j'ai du la louper", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153513}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298209090.3616819, "message": "ahhh :)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153517}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298209437.2364171, "message": "et si on veut que ce soir libre; alors imo il faudrait un format qui le soit aussi", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153562}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298209113.412025, "message": "oui donc les donn\u00e9es son \u00e0 priori d\u00e9j\u00e0 extraite", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153518}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298209130.8901579, "message": "ou alors sur quoi fonctionnent nos d\u00e9pput\u00e9s ou les institutions europeennes?", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153520}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298209369.084111, "message": "rare sont les donn\u00e9es publiques qui peuvent etre fournie sans \u00eatre \u00e9dit\u00e9e quand m\u00eame", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153548}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298209375.8481879, "message": "ertains chiffres oui", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153551}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298209387.2684109, "message": "mais reste le cot\u00e9 \u00e9dition n\"cessaire", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153552}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298209392.3087261, "message": "pour anonymiser ces don\u00e9es", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153553}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298209415.1279991, "message": "@nautilebleu C'est marrant parce que, m\u00eame si c'est un peu caricatural, y'a quand m\u00eame un fond de v\u00e9rit\u00e9 :)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153554}, {"user_id": 14031, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298209507.7450719, "message": "@benoitc Ce qui n'est pas gagn\u00e9 vu la quantit\u00e9 de donn\u00e9es publi\u00e9es en XLS\u2026", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153573}, {"user_id": 6415, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298211153.6301141, "message": "Je r\u00e9serve ma soir\u00e9e \u00e0 sa lecture :)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153614}, {"user_id": 14031, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298209913.7525301, "message": "@davidpaccoud Ca m\u00e9riterait certainement d'\u00eatre approfondi :)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 153581}, {"user_id": 13737, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298229079.4310789, "message": "+1", "group_id": 4555, "id": 154456}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298236577.5142069, "message": "http://groups.google.com/group/nymphormation/msg/e483c87323af946a", "group_id": 4555, "id": 154769}, {"user_id": 14190, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298244267.6812041, "message": "R\u00e9ponse sur le google group. Et pour Nantes la question ne se pose pas, ils pensent \u00e0 l'ODBL", "group_id": 4555, "id": 155122}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298246808.5739951, "message": "@libertic je te repond un peu plus tard dans la matin\u00e9e :)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 155182}, {"user_id": 11402, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298277554.652375, "message": "@benoitc pourquoi ne pas mettre directement le texte ici ? (y'a pas de limite de caract\u00e8re si je comprends bien). Je lis le post :)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 157201}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298281174.387439, "message": "qqn aurait un lien sur le budget allou\u00e9 \u00e0 data.gov ?", "group_id": 4555, "id": 157435}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298280877.933327, "message": "hop r\u00e9pondu", "group_id": 4555, "id": 157410}, {"user_id": 1509, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298291169.811522, "message": "@ametaireau le post etait un peu long :)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 158254}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298364253.6960781, "message": "http://owni.fr/2011/02/21/cada-administrations-hors-la-loi/", "group_id": 4555, "id": 177886}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298364424.780931, "message": "http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/cost_of_the_datagovuk_website la r\u00e9ponse est... floue :)", "group_id": 4555, "id": 177900}, {"user_id": 13737, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298626229.442225, "message": "http://owni.fr/2011/02/21/pour-un-opendata-des-usagers/ : \"Pour caricaturer, on pourrait dire que les lobbyistes de l\u2019opendata demandent \u00e0 l\u2019administration de d\u00e9penser l\u2019argent du contribuable pour cr\u00e9er des bases de donn\u00e9es. Or, celles-ci ont vocation \u00e0 \u00eatre utilis\u00e9es en priorit\u00e9 par\u2026 les lobbyistes de l\u2019opendata. Le contribuable, qui paye pour la mise en ligne des donn\u00e9es, n\u2019est pas le principal b\u00e9n\u00e9ficiaire de l\u2019op\u00e9ration.\"", "group_id": 4555, "id": 206816}, {"user_id": 13737, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1298626334.0746851, "message": "\"\" L\u2019ouverture des donn\u00e9es publiques doit se faire par le bas, dans un processus bottom-up plut\u00f4t que top-down. C\u2019est aux demandeurs de s\u2019organiser pour transformer les donn\u00e9es de l\u2019administration en une base utilisable par les machines, pas aux contribuables. Mais c\u2019est \u00e9galement \u00e0 l\u2019administration de s\u2019adapter pour r\u00e9pondre aux besoins des demandeurs et fournir les donn\u00e9es.\"\" Mouais pas convaincu l\u00e0 par contre", "group_id": 4555, "id": 206820}, {"user_id": 10318, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1299276516.1303871, "message": "http://libertic.wordpress.com/2011/02/25/pourquoi-la-reutilisation-des-donnees-publiques-a-des-fins-commerciales-doit-etre-gratuite/ pas d'accord avec tout mais il y a de bons points soulev\u00e9s", "group_id": 4555, "id": 273390}, {"user_id": 37817, "stars": [], "topic_id": 7352, "date_created": 1310339690.996114, "message": "Salut !", "group_id": 4555, "id": 1607525}] |