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convore.json/groups/symphony-wg/content-relationships/messages.json
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Kenneth Reitz add958b068 shuffle things around a bit
2012-02-21 01:15:00 -05:00

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[{"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303990316.7088859, "message": "The goal of this discussion is to develop a proposal for how to approach content relationships in Symphony 3.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839188}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303990386.1943979, "message": "1) Background - 5 mins", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839195}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303991107.761513, "message": "Got there in the end.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839253}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303991935.5490601, "message": "hello", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839303}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992056.9280651, "message": "Sup", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839318}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992768.304575, "message": "when I say UX I mean how does the user create a relationship... by adding a field to a section?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839454}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303990669.1736269, "message": "3) Goals - 10 mins", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839207}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303991078.798811, "message": "@nilshoerrman yes I believe in 15 mins. I haven't had a chance to think through what we're doing to discuss though. So I hope Craig can lead", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839247}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303991099.849376, "message": "Bah!", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839251}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303990375.5291791, "message": "Our agenda:", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839194}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303990703.2340701, "message": "4) Use Cases - 15 mins", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839216}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303990392.4967151, "message": "2) Scope - 10 mins", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839197}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303991140.351213, "message": "@nikdun no problem", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839257}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303990719.8859701, "message": "Oh that chat is today?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839218}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303991120.900203, "message": "I thought that chat would take place next week, but Convore just send me a notification", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839254}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303990798.5406921, "message": "5) Proposals - 15 min", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839227}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303990806.0978041, "message": "6) Next Steps - 5 min", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839228}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303991098.888499, "message": "@nilshoermann", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839250}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303991223.2789359, "message": ":)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839264}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303991994.5619259, "message": "Hey fellas", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839311}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992016.8826089, "message": "Hey ho", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839315}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992242.148597, "message": "Because it's all bundled together", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839347}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992321.4733939, "message": "yeah", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839361}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992444.744796, "message": "- the user experience of creating and managing relationships", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839387}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303991103.9598801, "message": "@nilshoerrmann", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839252}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303991124.8417301, "message": "interesting", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839255}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992048.861474, "message": "Let's get started", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839316}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992057.9060371, "message": "hey guys", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839319}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992236.3120661, "message": "Opting for a certain kind of relationships usually means also opting for a certain kind of UI element, etc", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839345}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992265.330713, "message": "In most cases creating relationships and managing them is a clunky user experience", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839352}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992092.625149, "message": "Content relationships in Symphony 2 are a bit of a mess.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839328}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992129.64185, "message": "Not until recently did we even begin to look at what the system does with section_associations", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839334}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992171.3049381, "message": "Relationship-creating fields manage the entire experience full-stack", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839337}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992303.794415, "message": "sound about right?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839356}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992316.490001, "message": "Sounds familiar", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839359}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992350.272366, "message": "yeah there's not much to help you out except for the section association table, and that's been shrouded with mystery for awhile", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839366}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992604.6201379, "message": "yes, but I'm just establishing the terms of the discussion", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839424}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992371.821331, "message": "right", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839370}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992388.011265, "message": "so the scope of this discussion really is in two places:", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839373}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992503.4439981, "message": "I'm not talking about UI per se. I'm talking about user journey, e.g. right now with SBL you have to click the linked column number and then create entries there...", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839401}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992565.4861889, "message": "does that make sense?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839414}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992737.529253, "message": "the rest is up to field extensions", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839446}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992750.012568, "message": "I think http://guides.rubyonrails.org/association_basics.html is a fairly comprehensive (yet basic) summary of possible relationships that developers may expect to be supported", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839451}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992756.3493509, "message": "and there is no right one", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839452}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992767.5136149, "message": "My comment from BC: \"The concept of section relationships (and their rendering as fields) in Symphony 3 is one that Allen and Craig have been wanting to discuss at length for a long time. I know they have some ideas about this, and I recall a discussion whereby a UI-less \u201cLink\u201d (or \u201cRelationship\u201d) field might exist, which then supports rendering via various UI widgets (select box, autocomplete, tags, inline subsection etc). There is a lot of thought that needs to be done regarding relationships and their manifestation. It\u2019s a complex one, but I think that in S2 we already have a wide selection of working and useful relationship UIs that need to be considered and formalised in S3.\"", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839453}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993395.876997, "message": "er", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839578}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992333.0011971, "message": "anybody have anything to add as far as where we're coming from?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839363}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992422.2943139, "message": "- how relationships are created, managed, and recognized on a system level", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839381}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992707.958009, "message": "make sense?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839441}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992728.17592, "message": "In my eyes Symphony should just take care of the system architecture", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839445}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992815.4136629, "message": "there are fundamental questions about how relationships are even created, and how those are answered will determine what the system needs to do", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839460}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992868.696553, "message": "And fields (extensions) render these in the ways they provide. Rather than the fields themselves achieving the relationship", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839473}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993288.276948, "message": "I was wondering if something could be done with API that was similar, so you could mark your field was capable of handling these relationships", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839547}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993997.003751, "message": "yea, but you get my point", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839742}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994089.1569879, "message": "that sort of thing", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839773}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994290.741765, "message": "alright, let's backtrack a little bit", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839843}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992448.9506781, "message": "let me clarify the latter", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839389}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992540.7457769, "message": "I'd like us to try to steer clear of specific UI ideas as much as possible and focus on how the system's architecture will affect the journeys users have to make", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839408}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992620.0023451, "message": "Right, sorry, go on", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839426}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992679.3101411, "message": "Just suggesting that we limit the scope of our discussion to system architecture and user experience (broadly speaking) and try not to spend time on specific UI ideas", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839436}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992826.839422, "message": "@czheng: I think Symphony should not care", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839464}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992828.389153, "message": "Right. So we're talking higher leve, that at the moment relationships are fields", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839465}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992905.0628071, "message": "@nickdunn exactly", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839480}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992927.9446709, "message": "Right, so the proposal that's been on the table for a while now (between me and Allen at least) is exactly what Nick suggests. The core is responsible for the relationships themselves.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839481}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993109.699594, "message": "can we all agree that the core should support all the different kinds of relationships (one to one, one to many, many to many, etc)?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839517}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993181.067101, "message": "yes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839527}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993270.911144, "message": "what's a \"relationshiop candidate\"", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839544}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993349.3563521, "message": "right, this is something Allen and I floated... the idea of relationship-creating fields", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839560}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993359.0159259, "message": "need to take a step back..", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839561}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993474.9291091, "message": "press 'pause' on this for just a second... I want to know if anyone has any broad goals to add for relationship management in S3", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839598}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993796.6097751, "message": "again, http://guides.rubyonrails.org/association_basics.html", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839690}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993808.4221909, "message": "\u2022 obvious one to many, an article entry with many comment entries", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839691}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993816.8448131, "message": "Aha", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839695}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993958.97175, "message": "I don't mind either, but we'll have to think through what each relationship *means* from a system perspective", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839734}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994312.6594329, "message": "The current solution being the variety of extensions we have?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839851}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992832.4148979, "message": "level*", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839466}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992579.0600779, "message": "Perhaps we need to first define the types of relationships that Symphony need to support, then look at how that will affect the architecture", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839417}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993031.0438421, "message": "Yeah, I'm seeing one of the biggest gaps is that there is no standard way to do the linking", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839496}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993125.3959329, "message": "@czheng yes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839520}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993196.9919829, "message": "yes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839532}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992979.3824151, "message": "Thing is, S2 already does this to a certain extent with its section associations and the \"show count\" in backend and XML options. All it is missing is the code-level API to form the relationships", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839485}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993174.7979341, "message": "the core will need to provide a relationships API for extensions to work with, yes?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839526}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993184.0044611, "message": "Yeah", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839528}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992709.504246, "message": "I'm not sure we should talk about UX", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839443}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993013.364917, "message": "@phoque: maybe we can scratch #3 but #2 is important", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839488}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993021.8835411, "message": "no", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839492}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993044.4274011, "message": "Yeah", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839499}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993375.0531471, "message": "Craig and I thought about the question of relationship at a field level or at a section level", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839567}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993403.520931, "message": "field A relates to section B", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839581}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993549.872447, "message": "Let's all let Craig lead the discussions", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839624}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993706.9101939, "message": "in S3, sections are defined in the XML", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839668}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993778.6299191, "message": "laying these out will help us think more clearly I hope", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839685}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993988.137059, "message": "many-to-many is bi-directional. Belongs-to-many is one direction", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839741}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994618.041805, "message": "CREATE TABLE `tbl_sections_association` (\n `id` int(11) unsigned NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT,\n `parent_section_id` int(11) unsigned NOT NULL,\n `parent_section_field_id` int(11) unsigned DEFAULT NULL,\n `child_section_id` int(11) unsigned NOT NULL,\n `child_section_field_id` int(11) unsigned NOT NULL,", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839948}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994630.041404, "message": "we already store the parent and the child", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839951}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994639.3718369, "message": "it's up the field to implement the relationship style", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839954}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994677.8697481, "message": "ah, right", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839968}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992749.830919, "message": "there are different approaches for relationships", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839450}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993215.9878221, "message": "anything else to add to our overall goals?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839537}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993237.726624, "message": "Something I've been thinking about is I like how fields at the moment can add a Required Checkbox field with a single function, or can set that's sortable", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839538}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993249.021132, "message": "should the core supply a way to search for \"relationship-candidates\" as well?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839541}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993256.0923581, "message": "sorry brendan, go ahead", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839542}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994049.338043, "message": "many-to-many cannot support belongs-to-many", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839763}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994568.0032811, "message": "what other information needs to be stored?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839927}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994704.447448, "message": "yup, got it. I thought you meant the actual link", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839982}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994757.7021949, "message": "ok", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840000}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994773.829941, "message": "we're digressing? I thougt we were finally making progress... but go on", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840006}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994929.21819, "message": "wouldn't it have to to know what it had to do in order to create/delete/fetch the link?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840047}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992769.3643351, "message": "I think that's what craig is suggesting if I'm not mistaken", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839455}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992839.3444841, "message": "I don't understand, Nils", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839467}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992847.1829779, "message": "Should S3 have a more core-oriented way of linking relationships", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839468}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992861.859596, "message": "that's goal #1", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839472}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992882.9976759, "message": "@czheng: maybe I'll listen to you guys first ...", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839476}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992888.996763, "message": "@nickdunn seems sound", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839478}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992972.5291419, "message": "I'm a bit worried about poinst 2 and 3 of the ones Nils posted", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839484}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993014.610023, "message": "Nils I think you just described SSM, right?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839489}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993067.191772, "message": "naturally", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839505}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993202.6173661, "message": "yes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839533}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993336.7207079, "message": "on the Section Editor adding some sort of 'link' field could then allow certain types of links between fields, based off this settings", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839555}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993371.555588, "message": "go ahead Allen", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839564}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993299.5210199, "message": "well I think that's almost what I suggested", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839549}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993385.159718, "message": "i.e. Section A relates to Section B", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839573}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993385.888093, "message": "or", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839574}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303992942.26091, "message": "- relationships should allow one-to-one and one-to-many relationships. \n- children should know their parents and the parents their children. \n- children should be sortable\n\nSymphony should not assume the UI or the kind of relationship.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839483}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993025.6333871, "message": "#3 is SSM", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839493}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993131.361819, "message": "Agreed, core should be responsible for handling relationships. This will allow the system to provide tools to help extension developers make relationship-type features and will also allow system to deal with optimisations.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839522}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993133.788573, "message": "Also agreed.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839523}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993030.9510181, "message": "Wait... Can we all agree that the core should be responsible for handling the relationships on a fundamental level?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839495}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993048.281666, "message": "@czheng yes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839500}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993061.417366, "message": "also garbage-collection and zombie-killing", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839503}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993088.034466, "message": "Yes, agreed. The core needs to formalise the relationship in some way", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839510}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993126.675633, "message": "yes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839521}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993373.3656549, "message": "sure", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839565}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993465.6036561, "message": "apart from the fact that you ahve to select a field from that section to display", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839594}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993504.9428689, "message": "so technically its Field -> Section", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839609}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993660.85976, "message": "Indeed", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839654}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993391.738183, "message": "field A relates to field B", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839576}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993419.942277, "message": "I'd say the third solution", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839583}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993894.640105, "message": "Thanks @brend0. I've always been a fan of how Rails handles relationships.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839714}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994053.30984, "message": "but belongs_to implies that one depends on the other", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839766}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994500.0840931, "message": "that's what I mean. I think we're all thinking too specific an implementation", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839906}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994531.0900459, "message": "the rest should be up to extensions", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839915}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994976.844471, "message": "@czheng thats just GUI", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840058}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995027.6510351, "message": "It's GUI, but its Symphony \"architecture\" GUI and not _field_ GUI", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840080}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995734.0607591, "message": "Extension can examine the relationship. I.e. examine Image section. if image section belongs to news section, and inline editing is true, do UI stuff and allow cascade delete.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840325}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993434.784632, "message": "That's what happens with S2 currently", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839587}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994724.684444, "message": "Example?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839991}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995054.778177, "message": "this is why I think use cases are important", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840094}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995073.5759101, "message": "right now, let's say an extension allows me to nest child entries in the table", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840098}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995160.6797521, "message": "but I can't switch from one to the other without losing the relationship", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840125}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995648.57535, "message": "right... that's more what I meant to say. yes the goal is to separate core relationship management from UI. but UI is more nuanced than just \"field makes all decisions and provides all functionality\"", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840296}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993476.2040401, "message": "er sorry? Field A to Field B is what happens currently", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839599}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993496.9794929, "message": "@brend0 it's linking to the ID but dislpaying a field value", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839605}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993737.356478, "message": "@nilshoermann I'd like to look at field duplications available by default on all fields as a Field setting, that may be OT though", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839678}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994618.1433561, "message": "Back up \u2014 you're still talking about fields beinbg stored at the relationship level", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839949}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994896.2222331, "message": "does it make any decisions at all about what a relationship means?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840035}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993458.3023441, "message": "There is a level of elegance if relationships are established at the section level", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839593}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993505.3683791, "message": "understanding what the goals are will help us sort implementational questions", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839610}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993655.987184, "message": "I think we might all be thinking too close inside the box of S2", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839649}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993763.349103, "message": "shift gears.... let's talk use cases", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839681}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993784.6335671, "message": "I'm talking broadly again", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839687}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994067.752033, "message": "so deleting the 'parent' should probably delete the entry that 'belongs to' it", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839769}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994091.2923601, "message": "Which is something that was in the code but never completely implemented", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839775}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994095.9205871, "message": "Ok, makes sense", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839777}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994201.930465, "message": "Yes, correct", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839813}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994240.191051, "message": ":(", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839825}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994309.5079269, "message": "in S2?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839848}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994347.196069, "message": "the other ones are just doing something in the XML or the GUI", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839865}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994359.6688659, "message": "and the datasource editor doesn't really know how to handle 'linked' fields either", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839868}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994467.012419, "message": "unstable versions of the Bilink combine SSM, so you can create the entry in the opposing section on the fly", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839896}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994493.4861979, "message": "@brend0 that's just GUI", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839905}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994531.028753, "message": "listen...", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839914}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993524.310071, "message": "@brend0 SSM is linking a field to a section", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839615}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993558.645963, "message": "If there is a abstracted API, developers could choose to link fields, sections or whatever", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839626}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993664.6937289, "message": "Right now, there are several solutions to that (SBL \"show last x entries\", reference link copying that behaviour with another UI, SSM doing it completely different)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839657}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993675.2234271, "message": "Agree with @allen", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839660}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993910.6115711, "message": "but each of those types carries connotations", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839719}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994412.4448881, "message": "SSM allows this to happen on the fly, which is a major advantage and probably the main reason SSM has taken off", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839878}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994452.916975, "message": "Bilink field attempts to do both, allow either entry to link to each other, so you don't have to always go to the comments section to link to a news article for example", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839889}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994453.3327799, "message": "@phoque: you're right", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839891}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995268.2541201, "message": "But switching data is not a kind of parent <> child relation", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840175}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995412.7399161, "message": "@phoque exactly", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840214}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993526.733763, "message": "Nothing further to add in terms of goals my end", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839617}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993568.342032, "message": "One thing we might think of:", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839628}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993600.391048, "message": "agreed", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839637}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994750.478492, "message": "how would that be represented via section level relationships?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839999}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994007.33565, "message": "SBL almost mirrors a belongs-to-many or a belongs-to relationship imo", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839746}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994027.200614, "message": "you could set up bi-directional by having two sections relate to each other", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839753}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994039.853765, "message": "i.e. belongs-to-many can offer support for many-to-many", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839757}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994137.800626, "message": "I remember", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839791}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994387.1547029, "message": "relationships are reversed", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839872}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994678.9350281, "message": "belongs to, has many, etc.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839969}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993698.3139601, "message": "I want to look at this from a fresh angle first", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839667}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993572.413022, "message": "Nothing other than I *think* that one to one, one to many, and many to many relationships should be handled by the core out of the box (no third party extensions)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839630}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993593.2851009, "message": "(In their most basic form)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839634}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993936.4041269, "message": "belongs-to-many implies ownership", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839727}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994173.3775361, "message": "but this is a good discussion to have, because whether the system cares about this matters for our use cases. it's one thing to say 'user wants to link entry to another entry' but another thing to say 'user wants to create child entries'", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839807}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994205.1731081, "message": "Shouldn't Symphony be able to handle all relationships?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839816}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994223.620291, "message": "yes, the question is how it handles them", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839820}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994393.4318471, "message": "SBL is a start, but it creates a confusing and jarring experience because it requires an Author to have already created the other entry", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839873}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994468.8215499, "message": "the data stored by SBL and SSM are the same - the UI is reversed", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839898}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994699.2845781, "message": "The field then says \"I'm rendering this relationship\"", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839980}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994706.1304629, "message": "@nickdunn: Symphony should not not care about the field that is handling the relationship", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839983}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994729.991369, "message": "I need all of us to stop the discussion for the moment. We're digressing the talk a bit. Let's let Craig lead please.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839994}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993727.862349, "message": "i.e.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839673}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993809.3205431, "message": "has common use cases which will save time", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839693}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993919.4124601, "message": "many-to-many is generic", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839723}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994238.8655131, "message": "I'm not sure I'm following at all", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839824}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994292.982862, "message": "I think the current solution nails all relationship-types pretty well, doesn't it?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839844}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994328.1289239, "message": "no, SBL itself", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839859}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994335.800354, "message": "I think there's general groundwork, but extensions still have to do the actual linking, unlinking themselves", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839861}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994373.7031829, "message": "Nils: how so?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839870}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993611.721314, "message": "if Symphony allowed field duplications, most of the subsection relationships we have now wouldn't be needed", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839641}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994350.6458819, "message": "SBL and SSM are using contrary concepts", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839866}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994467.473093, "message": "But SBL has its own use cases, especially the Articles/Comments case. Articles curated in the backend, Comments submitted via the frontend. Article is always created first. The SSM isn't a logical concept in this case", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839897}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994759.214303, "message": "(We can continue this after)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840002}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995018.818814, "message": "right now, field extensions do everything, and that's what's a disaster", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840074}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995025.4085369, "message": "@allen so that means the core has to know what the relationship means", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840078}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995267.910996, "message": "which leads us to the architectural questions", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840174}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995769.264034, "message": "yeah this goes back to a question of goals i think", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840338}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995970.2074251, "message": "@nickdunn It was one of the reasons why SSM didn't use the association table right from the beginning that Symphony forced an automatic UI element (the link to the other section) which was displayed \"in the wrong section\" from SSM point of view.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840398}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996232.3657529, "message": "Something that hasn't been mentioned with this approach is how it translates to datasources and events", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840521}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993623.9695251, "message": "@czheng regarding \"Broad goals for relationship management\": Should fields be responsible for finding entries from the linked section or should the core provide an API for that?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839643}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993787.5136709, "message": "I'll hold on my stuff", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839688}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993938.945935, "message": "that sort of thing", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839728}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994146.4928441, "message": "heh, I can imagine", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839796}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994179.060648, "message": "(Users > Content. A user leaves the company, user is deleted, all their content disappears. Took days to figure out it was these hidden cascades set in the DB!)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839808}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994413.141057, "message": "From an extension developer point of view I'd like to have a wait to create a relationship with some flags", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839879}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994423.2325461, "message": "Allen: I don't think they are", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839881}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994526.9922111, "message": "yup", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839912}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994532.9623201, "message": "and all I'm saying is \"the current SBL does it all. everything else is eyecandy/UX polish\"", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839917}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994563.914135, "message": "ok", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839924}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994580.3725269, "message": "we currently store the section_id, the field_id and then the linked section_id and linked field_id", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839931}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994582.92116, "message": "child, parent, belongs to or not", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839932}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994585.680748, "message": "so I'm guessing the type of the relationship?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839933}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994595.068994, "message": "well that's implied", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839938}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994596.8210011, "message": "section_id/field_id is the parent", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839939}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996156.6276131, "message": "no I'm not", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840484}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993641.0744691, "message": "i would think the latter...", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839646}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994517.9688621, "message": "this is a question of how do we support relationships in a new system, not how to fix what we have now", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839910}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994519.2133801, "message": "Symphony need a way to store all possible kinds of relationships", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839911}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994632.442817, "message": "we just don't store the type", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839952}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994843.412029, "message": "maybe we should expand the goal", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840022}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995031.196403, "message": "aka, one to many etc.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840085}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993725.5334361, "message": "the thought is to look at the possibility for a section XML to define relationships", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839672}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994001.9985449, "message": "yes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839745}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994041.2273071, "message": "but", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839759}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994132.7971449, "message": "yep", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839787}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994160.757961, "message": "I was fun times", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839801}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994331.008317, "message": "SBL, SSM etc.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839860}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994681.600543, "message": "So Section A and Section B are related, say in a one to many way, the system knows that much only, not which _fields_ render the relationship", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839973}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995423.8080561, "message": "http://d.pr/Eaou", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840219}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995438.943325, "message": "When you create a relationship, in my eyes, it's entirely field agnostic", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840223}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303993782.8439031, "message": "ok", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839686}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994015.91062, "message": "@craig, I don't understad your point", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839750}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994043.505317, "message": "saying one-to-one is a generic thing. there's nothing for us to decide about how that relationship is hadled", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839761}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994117.9048691, "message": "S2rev5 did have cascading deletes, it really fucked us up a few times, before it was removed ;-)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839782}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994639.9928341, "message": "Can we consider whether the relationship is agnostic of the fields that represent it", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839956}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995220.4228179, "message": "being unable to change the field but keeping the relationship?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840155}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995474.427707, "message": "Remember I suggest that at its core Symphony should be able to render relationships in the UI without field extensions", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840230}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995850.805089, "message": "So what would extensions do on top of this, if this is in the core?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840362}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994107.0189559, "message": "that was a nice easter egg found during the 2.2 cleanup", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839780}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994204.5263791, "message": "should the system be agnostic?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839814}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996822.8486099, "message": "in terms of S3 structure XML", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840745}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994664.7287941, "message": "@brend0 what do you mean by \"relationship type\"?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839963}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994702.725385, "message": "how does that scale with multiple relationships?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839981}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994711.9199071, "message": "if it's just applied on a section level", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839985}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994738.745563, "message": "a news section has linked comments and linked images", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839996}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994739.5179801, "message": "Ok, hushed.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 839997}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994804.5245049, "message": "Nils, your points about how Symphony should leave everything to the extensions should be raised as a proposed goal", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840013}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994852.399251, "message": "was that Nils H or W?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840024}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994967.175117, "message": "i mean it's nice to say that it should handle it, but if you aren't going to tell it what to do, there's only so much symphony can do from guessing", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840054}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996029.806654, "message": "@nickdunn because you'd add it to a section", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840415}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996066.2682371, "message": "no", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840435}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994869.0691249, "message": "symphony should be able to handle the creation of a link, the deletion of a link and the fetching of related entries via the link", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840028}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994953.0952051, "message": "yeah, that, but also being able to nest child entries for instance in an index view... things like that.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840052}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995029.862911, "message": "yes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840084}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995039.3729651, "message": "indeed", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840089}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995042.310545, "message": "agreed @nickdunn", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840091}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995056.970418, "message": "because", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840095}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995151.7513449, "message": "right now SBL and reference link are functionally equivalent", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840121}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995215.9910991, "message": "you cannot switch from an input to a date field as well", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840152}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995231.9229569, "message": "it's an issue of what symphony thinks relationships are", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840158}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995287.473146, "message": "I think you're missing the point here", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840182}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996756.282234, "message": "Multiple relationships to the same section?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840719}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994882.4408281, "message": "the extension would provide a UI that would talk to that API how it liked?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840032}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995006.7390981, "message": "I would like the core to know what relates to what and also in what direction", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840071}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995734.517689, "message": "Nils: definitely", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840326}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995897.1862929, "message": "I'm thinking that is basic core offering", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840375}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995986.0208099, "message": "I am imagining this as one bigass unified link field that ships with the core. You select the section(s) you want to target, select the link-options and, sort of like a textformatter for textareas, a special \"GUI-extension\" that provide SSM- or Reference-Link-functionality", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840402}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996363.396445, "message": "@nickdunn you think of a field as \"stuff in the publish form\"", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840595}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996372.0502429, "message": "relantionships tab on sections, datasources and events", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840601}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996393.890075, "message": "it doesn't have to appear in the publish form", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840606}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997354.564198, "message": "@brend0, yes :)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840912}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994915.4995439, "message": "Cascading deletes, for example? Or something else?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840041}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994915.9852071, "message": "as in:", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840042}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995060.9558661, "message": "I don't quite understand", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840096}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995100.713557, "message": "how the content is prepared", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840106}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995104.448061, "message": "how the field is filtered", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840108}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995203.633914, "message": "it's a general data issue", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840146}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995337.0800371, "message": "I'm just offering a couple of use cases to demonstrate why this isn't simply an issue of \"core makes relationships, everything else is GUI\"", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840194}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995379.1997271, "message": "yes please", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840205}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995422.292263, "message": "Back to Brendan's previous example of News with many-to-many Images and Comments", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840216}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995515.7462671, "message": "\"Allow inline editing\" and \"Show count in entry list\" in my S2-inspired example", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840242}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996010.1818421, "message": "I think we're getting pretty close to being on the same page", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840411}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994969.0366549, "message": "Is there anything specific to the relationships of entries that we want the core to be aware of and able to act on?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840055}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995018.597404, "message": "@allen yes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840073}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995023.6698771, "message": "Based on that information an extension is informed as to how that relationship should be handled.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840077}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995137.459111, "message": "another case:", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840116}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995195.443717, "message": "dev of site", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840140}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995196.84289, "message": "let's say the developer for now", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840142}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995502.5427959, "message": "So when creating a relationship, there may be UI-related parameters to set", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840238}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995590.2143891, "message": "No,m sorry", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840267}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995592.879513, "message": "Maybe not a field at all", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840268}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995595.4359641, "message": "Just an extenion", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840272}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995605.124902, "message": "All Symphony knows, is that between News and Images, inline editing can occur", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840277}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995822.9459269, "message": "The core understands relationships and also provides a set of API tools to deal with relationship handling for extensions.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840352}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995823.926398, "message": "I don't think a new user should have to choose between 5 extensions to add images to their blog posts", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840353}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995829.098639, "message": "or to add sub-entries", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840355}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995968.3629069, "message": "the API should allow those decisions to be overridden I suppose", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840397}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303994998.251765, "message": "here's the problem though", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840067}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995088.6051309, "message": "fine, the problem is that that extension also makes evvery single other decision for me", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840103}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995095.8645439, "message": "how the field input is displayed", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840105}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995113.6754639, "message": "if I want to chage any one of those things, I'm screwed", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840110}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995132.3100669, "message": "and if I want a slightly different kind of relationship, I lose the nesting", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840114}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995173.6753111, "message": "the only difference between those two is a single UI point", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840129}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995236.1486349, "message": "which is field data", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840160}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995354.446058, "message": "you know what I mean?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840199}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995879.983377, "message": "certain extensions that creates their own custom table can examine section relationships and decide how to deal with their own table data", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840368}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995171.0862889, "message": "when you say I, are you referring to the extension dev or the developer making the site?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840128}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995198.3838511, "message": "@czheng But this is not an relationship issue", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840144}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995285.410665, "message": "for me this is a different issue - a valid one, but a different", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840179}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995375.5764959, "message": "Can I offer maybe another example?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840203}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995388.9755819, "message": "both cases were perfect examples of \"core should make relationships, everything else is GUI\"", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840208}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995454.4470279, "message": "However the configuration of the relationship governs that UI is available", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840227}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995526.6475101, "message": "They are UI options", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840248}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995544.7584009, "message": "But they are UI options that Symphony's core understands and controls at a basic level", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840251}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995626.4720471, "message": "(inline editing being something SSM-esque)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840284}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995645.531656, "message": "My thoughts are closest to Nick's", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840294}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995655.582381, "message": "But those are the types of options I see as being available to all relationships", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840299}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995688.2831061, "message": "yes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840309}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995689.0405431, "message": "Symphony has UI conventions that it defines itself, we don't want to delegate all of the UI to fields or extensions entirely", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840310}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995579.5545499, "message": "Quite _how_ \"Allow inline editing\" is interpreted is down to a field", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840263}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995743.2631171, "message": "Wouldn't that be a case of smart defaults?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840328}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995779.3339019, "message": "I think I'm erring on the side of building this sort of stuff into the core as much as possible", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840340}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995807.4159751, "message": "Whereas I think Nils and Nils are more on the side of allowing an extension to do the majority (with an API for the underlying relationship building)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840348}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996066.7393401, "message": "controlled = configured", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840437}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996127.5031581, "message": "In the S3 beta UI the section editor had two tabs, Fields and Layout (or something)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840475}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996133.528502, "message": "Why not a third, Relationships", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840476}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996230.1357279, "message": "Because we're suggesting that in its most basic form, Symphony could handle relationships perhaps without adding fields at all", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840520}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996250.6414199, "message": "yes, and a relationship lives among fields", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840534}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996312.5817621, "message": "In S2 we have the SBL which would add a dropdown to Comments populated by Articles", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840572}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996329.69224, "message": "I don't think it should even be ther", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840581}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996449.310751, "message": "they also need to be able to add to the relationship via the frontend", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840621}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996508.228786, "message": "true", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840639}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996510.905102, "message": "@brend0 yep, all important things to discuss, but we're not there yet. We are in a heated debate about where the relationship is being defined.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840641}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995707.9452419, "message": "yes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840319}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996125.739079, "message": "well, anything you add to a section is a field", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840473}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997638.543088, "message": "that can be resolved", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841024}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996163.1523881, "message": "So I'm suggesting that basic relationship config isn't considered as a field. It's not a field, it's the section relationship config", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840488}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996181.331506, "message": "You can add multiple relationsgips to a section, but it isn't a field, is it?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840496}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996354.8336301, "message": "that's fine, it's just something else that needs to be considered if this is the direction", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840591}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996371.631819, "message": "In S2, yes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840600}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996568.6260159, "message": "In my Articles/Comments example, if there were a separate Relationships tab, I would define the relationship there once only. If I wanted to display this relationship in the Comments section (to allow selection of an Article) then I would add a Select Box field and link that to my relationship", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840659}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996704.7654591, "message": "that's thinking in DB terms", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840701}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997046.1074109, "message": "ok, so the relation acts as a 'field' in terms of needing to be included in layout and form processing?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840812}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997069.291163, "message": "No", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840819}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997117.8631279, "message": "@nickdunn We should really be careful with automatic system \"reactions\" on relationships", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840839}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997332.1098299, "message": "and then the concept that the field just does the rendering and any other nice things means that you could swap in a different field with no consequences", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840904}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995716.4493599, "message": "Ok, back to where we were", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840323}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995786.2964809, "message": "I personally would like for users to be able to manage basic relationships elegantly by default", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840343}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996249.412962, "message": "Brendan, that might be too specific right now", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840533}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996528.809025, "message": "checkin:", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840647}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996692.3890491, "message": "because a relationship, a foreign key is always a column", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840695}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996862.2810831, "message": "just paste a multiline thing", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840758}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996949.661438, "message": "yeah let's not get bogged down in UI stuff like that just yet", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840784}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997010.0430231, "message": "Not as a field in the form, but something in the UI that indicates the relationship", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840802}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997074.965235, "message": "like what would be the result of saying section x relates to y?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840820}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997111.745703, "message": "\"show count and link to related section\"", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840836}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997325.694674, "message": "Symphony is great at scaffolding basic data structures with no extensions", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840903}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997332.5276439, "message": "(text, boolean etc)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840905}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997340.311851, "message": "So I think relationships should be the same", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840908}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997445.239053, "message": "I don't like the idea that I have to go to two different places to setup my relationships", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840940}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997676.726917, "message": "or*", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841041}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995719.630264, "message": "Symphony should offer UI options to the developer but it should not force a UI based on the relationship (e. g. automatically displaying a count in the publish table=", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840324}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996263.2414629, "message": "the GUI on top of it is NOT a field", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840542}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996471.8730991, "message": "I think this would mean that symphony will have to know what to do in terms of these relationships", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840631}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996475.9859991, "message": "@brend0 we'll get to that part, don't worry", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840632}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996492.9452231, "message": "ie, to expect form data in a certain input, or apply validation to a field", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840634}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996546.6279049, "message": "we're 15 minutes past an hour. anyone short on time? I know it's late for Brendan", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840653}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997046.8209541, "message": "ah ok", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840813}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997296.170944, "message": "cool", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840890}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997397.524426, "message": "depends on what \"concept of a field\" is", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840924}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997414.7995119, "message": "but that's not all a field does in Symphony", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840929}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997555.9222529, "message": "re: steps...", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840985}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995880.6708009, "message": "Would an extension be used, for example, to add drag/drop reordering to inline editing?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840369}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995951.9552791, "message": "i'm just talking on the level of goals. users should be able to manage basic relationships elegantly by default. which means the system will have to do something besides store the info and provide an API. it will have to make some decisions.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840391}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996051.1890359, "message": "But you add fields to a section to lay them out, to accept data input", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840428}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996202.6092839, "message": "otherwise you'd define the relationship and the fields position in the form in two different places", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840508}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996285.1074829, "message": "@nickdunn Yeah? It seems hand and hand", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840559}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996317.5898731, "message": "what's the point of a relationship if you can't expose it in your frontend XML, or add to it via the frontend?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840574}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996339.0606611, "message": "I want to configure me relationship without adding that field", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840583}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996657.4371619, "message": "your concept is orthogonal to what MySQL has to offer and what people are used to", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840682}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996377.3265159, "message": "I think of a field as being a bin where you can put stuff in", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840603}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996421.654386, "message": "again fine, but we have to think of other use cases aside from an Author being able to understand the relationship in the backend", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840611}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996643.6633959, "message": "we need to stick to relational database thinking", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840678}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997090.2695789, "message": "just that? a message saying 'x relates to y'?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840827}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997095.2202621, "message": "depends on what controls you've configured", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840831}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997305.9799759, "message": "do now*", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840893}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997324.69542, "message": "that's a major goal", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840902}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997358.653851, "message": "and the field merely taps into the relationship to build a UI and any additional rules", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840913}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998570.8642211, "message": "etc", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841316}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996060.1400499, "message": "Should a relationship be controlled away from fields?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840433}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303995914.4830289, "message": "the relationship API is lower level than that", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840382}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996015.2156889, "message": "@phoque, why would it need to be a field?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840412}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996111.0822561, "message": "It should be at the section level (editor) but I don't see that it should be a field per se", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840467}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996183.9441371, "message": "because you'd need to Layout the field anyways", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840500}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996709.5225079, "message": "but why should the user care?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840704}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996924.1698599, "message": "but I think setting up relationship (which is creating the section relation and pointing a field to it) should not be handled in different tabs", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840778}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996972.986989, "message": "so is it possible for a relation to be rendered in the publish page if a field doesn't exist?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840794}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996087.301477, "message": "because that's what people with knowledge of relational databases are used to", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840452}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996089.9777939, "message": "We have some \"fields\" in S2 that are just placeholders because S2 doesn't provuide anything different", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840455}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996251.616879, "message": "can I filter on the linked entries?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840535}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996638.925806, "message": "I think we're missing two things right now", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840675}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996759.7783799, "message": "@allen I know. why reinvent the wheel", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840720}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996774.2812159, "message": "because users aren't database designers?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840722}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996783.1475379, "message": "I don't consider many to many as being a column. I consieer it a link table", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840729}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996578.8511519, "message": "I'm good for another hour", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840662}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996698.190521, "message": "and so are all other fields", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840697}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996854.414294, "message": "how do you do code in Convore?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840755}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996951.9046831, "message": "Even when you're not always pointing a field to it?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840786}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997018.6542909, "message": "No idea what yet", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840804}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997063.8810239, "message": "but essentially it's useless without a field?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840817}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997078.432513, "message": "Relationships would be fuilly functional without fields", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840823}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997125.1010561, "message": "unless a field is added which takes control of a relation, right?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840840}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996151.0940289, "message": "@phoque I think you're still thinking in terms of S2", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840483}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996193.0120909, "message": "Even the layout tab is nonsense (it should be done in the section view directly)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840507}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996242.6206651, "message": "use cases:", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840530}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996318.2667379, "message": "we're not in agreement on where the definition of a relationship happens at this point.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840575}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996470.8904691, "message": "The author understanding and using the relationship is presently the biggest shortcoming", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840630}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996174.714529, "message": "another Tab \"Relationships\" is nonsense", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840493}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996208.6332681, "message": "Yes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840513}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996238.022742, "message": "i.e. create a relationship, and it works", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840526}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996283.6204431, "message": "but the relationship itself is", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840556}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996299.157491, "message": "Ok, think of an Articles/Comments example, one to many", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840564}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996323.0782869, "message": "That's a by-product of field-based relationships", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840577}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996343.7839849, "message": "my*", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840585}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996380.230057, "message": "But doesn't mean we have to in S3", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840604}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996440.323, "message": "the developer needs to be able to get data from this relationship easily via a datasource", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840619}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996625.771889, "message": "I'm not saying the idea of a Link field is wrong, just questioning whether we're stuck in S2 thinking", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840672}, {"user_id": 19790, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996664.542444, "message": "Hey guys \u2014 @phoque \u2014 why?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840686}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996661.4366021, "message": "I am with Nick in the sense that from a relationship's perspective, we are linking two sections together. i.e. car has many wheels. News has many comments. How fields deal with UI placements comes afterwards.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840684}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997147.460324, "message": "So yes, when creating a Comment entry, if you haven't got a field that lets you pick an article, you either cannot create a comment, or you follow Article > Create Comment. Perhaps the relationship is shown via a breadcrumb", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840844}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997188.5614879, "message": "Let's say for example, *only* an example:", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840856}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997193.0874109, "message": "One thing I learned while developing SSM: you never know all usecases - so don't anticipate a certain one.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840858}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997292.9370301, "message": "@czheng Yes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840889}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996594.731585, "message": "But the UI rendering would be optional. Symphony would know how to render the most basic form of UI to make the relationship visible to the user", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840666}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996734.8717501, "message": "@nickdunn How would you handle multiple relationships?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840710}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996779.1083081, "message": "no one section to many others (articles with comments, and links, and galleries)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840724}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996780.3164549, "message": "yes they are", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840726}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996831.08779, "message": "@nilshoerrmann see my diagram, you'd add as many relationships as you wish", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840750}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996872.2665269, "message": "(if relationships had IDs)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840762}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996993.292105, "message": "Yes, Symphony would probably handle this itself", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840799}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997269.4970009, "message": "@czheng Yeah, we should just build the idea of a system - sounds like a plan", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840880}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997370.4196601, "message": "Yeah I don't dispute that, but my thinking is to separate a relationship from the concept of a field", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840919}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997415.9083331, "message": "yours appears to be \"save stuff and display it here and there\"", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840930}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997590.1496799, "message": "@brend0 was your commend regarding my concept?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841006}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997083.2545121, "message": "In my opinion", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840824}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997298.44045, "message": "yeah it mirrors what extensions so now anyway", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840891}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996955.330204, "message": "I'd rather see a relation as a field-instance and what you guys are calling a field more like a text-formatter", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840787}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997242.1081891, "message": "the extreme interpretation, Nils, is that we shouldn't build a system at all :P", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840872}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997283.153024, "message": "that's well and good to say nils, but you have to have something default, otherwise we end up at the similar situation to what we've got that a user has to choose a field", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840886}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997529.7471161, "message": "yeah but if that field implemented the relationship differently, another field may not know what to do with it", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840973}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997710.5644281, "message": "urgh", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841048}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997772.0190761, "message": "@allen I'm not, just playing a devils advocate to ensure we think of other things that will need to be discussed as a result of this decision, it's much bigger then our current scope", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841076}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997824.570555, "message": "a good, comprehensive list of implications that need to be thought through", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841106}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997872.0839951, "message": "stuff like ds filtering, event submission, cascading deletion, field switching, and so on", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841120}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996811.5443671, "message": "<section>\n\t<relations>\n\t\t<section name=\"a\" type=\"has-one\"/>\n\t\t<section name=\"b\" type=\"belongs-to\"/>\n\t</relations>\n\t<fields>\n\t\t<field>...</field>\n\t</fields>\n</section>", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840737}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996859.5320449, "message": "<field renders-relationship=\"a\" />", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840756}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996870.173331, "message": "@allen I like that", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840759}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996920.6263261, "message": "I don't like it", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840776}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303996962.6528871, "message": "Just trying to make the distinction between fields and relationships", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840792}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997098.0644741, "message": "Symphony would be capable of rendering them in a basic way, as it does with the table columns etc", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840833}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997169.258832, "message": "ok, cool, beginning to understand the concept more", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840852}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997223.1557729, "message": "so the implication of a relation would mean that publish page knows to take care of validation of the relationship, ie, only one, or many etc", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840864}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997234.893945, "message": "don't do UI things unless the user specified it", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840868}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997238.610234, "message": "yes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840870}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997269.594502, "message": "Exactly. How do we build a basic UI that allows for relationships, without demanding the user installs extensions to render them first?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840881}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997313.1551149, "message": "I really, really, like the idea of being able to configure relationships wirhout having to think about what extension to use", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840896}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997494.6534491, "message": "What happens if I want to change the field that renders that relationship?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840960}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997668.8781919, "message": "yeah, a bit like a lightbox. Add the field that displays a relationship. A dropdown of existing relationships of a \"Create new relationship\" option that opens a drawer or modal lightbox to create it in-situ", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841039}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997714.380584, "message": "I don't see a problem with that \u2014 it still keeps relationships ultimately defined in one place...", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841052}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997986.0857589, "message": "(crickets chirping)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841157}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997269.9468369, "message": "I think sane defaults that can be configured and/or overridden is a good model, no?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840882}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997423.5701611, "message": "it would also be possible to autodetect existing relationships when adding a new field", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840934}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997454.4818611, "message": "relationship, then field?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840941}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997475.825537, "message": "adding a field and create a relationship", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840953}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997502.4307511, "message": "I'm with nils in that regard, I'm already weary of the 'two step' section setup, 'three steps' and then having to swap between two tabs could be a nightmare", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840965}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997808.924422, "message": "a good, comprehensive list of uses cases, both user ad dev", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841095}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998043.0262051, "message": "but yes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841172}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998674.0656559, "message": "@nilshoerrmann disagreed, there needs to be a default UI otherwise a user needs to be educated to create a relationship and then pick a field. Why not provide a default UI that's simples, and allow fields to go on create whatever they feel like to make the process easier or more full fledged", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841335}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998885.5724161, "message": "cool", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841384}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997320.7930391, "message": "yes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840900}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997387.7456839, "message": "yup", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840921}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997544.7822001, "message": "yeah", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840980}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997634.266088, "message": "right. The concept of \"steps or tabs\" is an UX/UI issue", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841022}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997666.354213, "message": "so the idiom would be that you're manging your entry/DS/view/etc, and then open the drawer to manage associations (relationships, resources, and so on)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841038}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997404.8118801, "message": "mine is \"save stuff\"", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840927}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997816.331785, "message": "Nick: I think that lightbox/modal dialog thing is even worse", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841100}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998165.8496261, "message": "agreed", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841211}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998246.0045359, "message": "whether that includes creating child entries inline, or being able to nest children in a table, and so on", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841238}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998605.304534, "message": "gotcha", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841320}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998644.1052361, "message": "@nickdunn: if \"out of the box\" means bundled as an extension, then I'm fine", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841327}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997333.3442249, "message": "@nickdunn my concept is all about that", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840906}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997542.5183029, "message": "yes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840979}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997714.942821, "message": "other nils, sorry :P", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841053}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997753.6805091, "message": "hm?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841068}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997649.246244, "message": "so don't hold that as the reason of not liking the section relationship concept", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841028}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998416.4901259, "message": "and getting a sense of the breadth of implications should help us figure out whether our proposed implementation(s) are going to be seriously problematic", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841287}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998442.9764199, "message": "Further back, to the actual people who will use the system, in their terms that aren't Symphony specific", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841296}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998738.6713049, "message": "Bak in 10", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841351}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997338.38904, "message": "because the relationship between data exists", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840907}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997465.027385, "message": "One to form the relationship, one to render it?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840948}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997500.742681, "message": "deleting a field wouldn't have to delete relationships", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840963}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998377.580292, "message": "agreed", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841273}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998513.888665, "message": "Sorry, I was away for a moment: @nickdunn Symphony should support out of the box by providing an API. If there is any UI involved this should be handled by an extension. It would be great to have an extension that is supported by the core team, but Symphony should not do anything automatically besides storing and providing relationship data", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841309}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998642.314374, "message": "that work for you Nils?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841326}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997679.465981, "message": "pf=or", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841042}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997682.577462, "message": "of=or", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841044}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997770.763073, "message": "If you allow a field to be deleted but the relationship remain, then you need a sepatrate UI to manage relationships", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841074}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998111.1934121, "message": "Im the opposite. If Symphony is going to permit relationships without extensions, then we need use cases to see how these can be achieved in their most basic, lightest, forms", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841196}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998720.959852, "message": "yeah I've got 10 minutes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841344}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997467.7727189, "message": "@phoque: currently in S3, fields don't store the layout information. Your implementation would mean a field decides where it belongs in the publish page?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840951}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997512.3190429, "message": "but, again in DB-thinking, order of fields is part of structure", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840967}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998080.8580091, "message": "I think it's more like, \"As a developer, how can I get the comments that are related to this news entry\"", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841187}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998099.49646, "message": "rather than the types of relationships that are possible", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841192}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998359.9576371, "message": "my point is simply that getting a sense of the breadth of uses we have to accommodate should help us think through how much to do and where", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841267}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998413.0921459, "message": "so...\n\"Symphony should be able to handle {A}\"\n\"Symphony should be able to handle {B}\"\n...", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841282}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998961.1915801, "message": "Symphony is a complex issue", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841408}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998686.7339211, "message": "To us lot who see extensions being built every day, it's easy for us to remember what each one does. For a less experiences user (who isn't an extension developer) I think Symphony should handle it (extension or not)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841337}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997479.1437671, "message": "separation of style and structure", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840956}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998208.815901, "message": "understanding the very simplest cases", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841222}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998233.158488, "message": "such as?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841234}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998896.671941, "message": "sounds good", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841387}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998934.8140609, "message": "Two-hour meeting. Still beats the members discussion.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841398}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997534.8909571, "message": "I can see @phoque's poiont about a \"Link\" field. Doesn't S3 have this already?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840976}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997723.598175, "message": "Haha, he didn't like that", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841056}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997834.826416, "message": "(i hate modal dialogs)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841109}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998058.372529, "message": "go ahead Allen", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841181}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997547.7427101, "message": "That's true", "group_id": 8448, "id": 840981}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997589.827523, "message": "@nilshoerrmann \"deleting a field wouldn't have to delete relationships\" yes, exactly why I like the definition to be done at the section level", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841005}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997760.233593, "message": "\"urgh\"", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841071}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997793.391475, "message": "yeah", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841086}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997797.9101861, "message": "here's what i think we're missing", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841088}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998024.017911, "message": "I don't see a benefit of designing usecases when thinking about something abstract as DB relations", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841164}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998307.7675719, "message": "yeah, fine...", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841258}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998605.599472, "message": "It would have to be a bundled core extension. We can't expect people to go reading up on all the relationship extensions when they use Symphony for the first time. All relationship types (one to one, one to many, many to many) should work out of the box in their most basic (if, unoptimised) ways", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841321}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997614.4787869, "message": "one UI idea I played with a while ago was having the 'drawer' be the place for handling associations of all kinds. so in this case wouldn't be another 'step' or 'tab'", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841016}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997798.9560821, "message": "agreed", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841091}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997848.1868911, "message": "by implications i mean:", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841110}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997938.373368, "message": "(I think you mean `modal dialogue`, Craig. British spelling in the majority here ;))", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841142}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998188.0285029, "message": "I know it's on the spot, but an example of what your thinking might be helpful?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841218}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998261.342001, "message": "to mean that's not use cases", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841242}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998262.9075129, "message": "that's features", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841243}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998295.6135049, "message": "the use case is, 'An Author needs the ability to create a News article and add images to this entry'", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841255}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998537.962738, "message": "*should support _relationships_ ...", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841312}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998706.7680459, "message": "Ok guys, I've got to run", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841340}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998101.6970191, "message": "is that right?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841194}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998416.2732289, "message": "and so on?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841285}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997810.639261, "message": "and", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841097}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998043.972574, "message": ":-)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841173}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998341.635833, "message": "i know it's picky, but we need a baseline, because that just proved that one interpretation of a use case is different to another", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841264}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998495.341671, "message": "User wants to create Categories and be able to nest them", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841307}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998985.8580861, "message": "ciao", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841419}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997898.1172111, "message": "Github wiki?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841134}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998223.885133, "message": "the most basic things we'd want the system to be able to support", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841230}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998260.7891159, "message": "I know we're trying to keep it high level, but I think it's adding to the confusion here", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841241}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997892.452985, "message": "do those two lists make sense as next steps?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841129}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997957.1386969, "message": "Yes on the wiki re: next steps", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841150}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998966.0363541, "message": "indeed", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841411}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303997880.8437829, "message": "all the possible things this decision could touch", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841127}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998008.758337, "message": "can we get a quick vote on the direction? I feel like we may not all be on the same page and want to get an indication", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841161}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998060.0709829, "message": "I'm not sure about the usecases either", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841182}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998131.6909909, "message": "We're all agreed that the concept needs to remain as abstract as poss", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841200}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998146.4358549, "message": "But use cases useful to see where Symphony should stop and extensions/fields begin", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841203}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998152.6246779, "message": "yup", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841205}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998212.2713859, "message": "for starters", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841225}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998443.718869, "message": "ie.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841297}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998711.6090779, "message": "Great discussion, glad it was heated", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841343}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998569.7160039, "message": "'An Order needs to contain at least one Item'\n'An Author needs to be able to remove or add Items to a Cart via the backend'\n'An Author needs the ability to select or add Performers to add them to an Event'\n'An Author can select up to four People that can be allocated to a single Car'\n'One Event can be at most on one Stage'", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841315}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998736.531069, "message": "We must be tired", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841349}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998722.1123271, "message": "it didn't go supernova though", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841345}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998728.1212499, "message": "Ok... next steps", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841346}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998740.186141, "message": "1) I'll create wiki pages for use cases and implications", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841352}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998749.7466609, "message": "we can continue to flesh those out as time permits", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841355}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998758.7946601, "message": "2) We'll schedule a follow-up chat sometime", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841356}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998767.8589029, "message": "to summarize:", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841357}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998864.7247939, "message": "not from me, I'll add some use cases to the wiki once it's up", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841379}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998891.971384, "message": "Nils? Nils?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841385}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998913.4651871, "message": "please do feel free to edit the wiki stuff too if I forget anything", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841392}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998930.5875089, "message": "guys, thanks. this was an excellent chat", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841395}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998941.8831141, "message": "it's a very complex issue that touches many, many areas", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841400}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998978.7916839, "message": "bye", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841416}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998789.189225, "message": "We got several goals laid out, but there are a few points of contention", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841362}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998808.745748, "message": "We have two rough approaches beign debated", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841364}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998834.950047, "message": "I will summarize in detail in a proposal draft that I'll post to the Github wiki", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841374}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998838.464673, "message": "anything else?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841375}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998875.7182879, "message": "awesome, yeah those ones you listed were great", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841381}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998978.7771249, "message": "Thanks a lot all", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841415}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998973.0551291, "message": "Okay guys thanks", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841412}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998947.2769749, "message": "haha", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841404}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998963.620342, "message": "heh", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841409}, {"user_id": 21932, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998982.933363, "message": "bye", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841417}, {"user_id": 27420, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303998986.966433, "message": "cya's", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841420}, {"user_id": 23210, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1303999895.791909, "message": "Bye!", "group_id": 8448, "id": 841537}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1304018884.5215161, "message": "Initial draft has been posted to the wiki: https://github.com/symphonycms/wg/wiki/Symphony-3", "group_id": 8448, "id": 846045}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635697.185061, "message": "why?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081988}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636727.3333571, "message": "indeed", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082251}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638654.381304, "message": "a right", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082754}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638693.5782671, "message": "yes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082760}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305633538.90832, "message": "hey", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081616}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305633342.0655639, "message": "Welcome back boys and girls", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081597}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305633546.8579719, "message": "So here's what's still open:", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081617}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305633566.4122469, "message": "I did bring my doll, yes. I've washed it too.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081619}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305633505.5197389, "message": "We have girls in the Working Groups? That's nice and new :)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081612}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305633645.345428, "message": "2) Whether these default behaviors, should they exist, get built into the core or into a default extension", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081629}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305633781.902209, "message": "Cool, thanks for the summary", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081638}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305633988.3842111, "message": "Hopefully an hour-ish?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081678}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634041.053839, "message": "but it appears they won't", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081686}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634049.160943, "message": "Okay sure", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081688}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634055.629025, "message": "well here are my thoughts:", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081690}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305633524.188777, "message": "(I was assuming Allen brought his blow-up doll)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081615}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634148.5201139, "message": "1) System should provide default behaviour for relationships.\n2) Default behaviours are built into the core except for extended interface-level customisations\n3) Relationships are defined via the section, not via field", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081705}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634192.4437289, "message": "My answers to the open questions:\n\n1) The system should provide the storage for relationships (multidirectional)\n2) The system should not provide an interface in the core, but a core extension that visualises relationships in a simple way (this is due do consistency reasons: everything is an extension in S3)\n2) Relationships should be defined in the section and redered via a field - it should be possible to have multiple relationships per section", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081709}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634256.3286049, "message": "well, let's tackle it one by one", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081720}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305633514.0522759, "message": "Hi Craig by the way", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081614}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305633693.9229059, "message": "3) Whether relationships are defined via a field, or defined on the section itself and then optionally rendered by a field", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081632}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305633915.680717, "message": "I'm not sure if I'm keen on this discussion :(", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081668}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634035.9189551, "message": "Yeah I was hoping Nick and Brendan would make it, they were quite opinionated last time", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081685}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634228.8143301, "message": "well", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081715}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635168.570684, "message": "I'm lost", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081876}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635177.38008, "message": "okay..", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081880}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305633594.5609579, "message": "1) Whether the system provides any default behavior for relationships (vs relying entirely on extensions)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081625}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635434.759258, "message": "so there are no UI components without extension", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081930}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634750.4096539, "message": "so", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081785}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634765.4395339, "message": ":)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081789}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634802.187495, "message": "I'd like the system to store the kind of relationship", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081797}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634816.260788, "message": "so it offers a way to set up the relationshiop", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081802}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305633869.9429741, "message": "sure", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081658}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305633919.0932579, "message": "Do we have a time limit", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081669}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634164.3956521, "message": "And here are my reasons:", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081706}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634451.4525819, "message": "Repeating fieldsets was going to be introduced by Scott for a very early build of a forked version of version 2, we even made a very early prototype build of it", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081745}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635221.128335, "message": "The first is up to the core, the second up to extensions", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081891}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635233.9597819, "message": "Do we have questions regarding my assertion?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081894}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635556.9839139, "message": "What I am saying is that if we define the data structure in Symphony to be one part ownership (section relationships) and one part limit (0 .. n) then they are able to be independently applied to the system", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081949}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305633389.801302, "message": "Here are the points that are still open for discussion:", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081600}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305633579.3266151, "message": "That's so kind of you", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081623}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634011.682735, "message": "I guess we're still waiting for some more people to show up...should we just start?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081683}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634046.0605559, "message": "so we should just go", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081687}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634222.758034, "message": "Wow, we're pretty close Nils", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081714}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634244.4437771, "message": "there's a point of contention there though", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081718}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634256.2498119, "message": "#1: storage only vs storage and behavior", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081719}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634267.5363641, "message": "right", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081721}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634298.1850941, "message": "I have one question", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081726}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634337.993901, "message": "Relationship is a core aspect of a framework. Relationships is part and parcel to data structures and data structure should be a core concept.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081734}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634858.7158141, "message": "@nilshoerrmann do you agree that limit should be handled by the core? i.e. if I say I only want at most 3 entries, the core needs to understand this", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081807}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634959.628715, "message": "more eloquently put of course.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081832}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634968.6171119, "message": "but that to me is a part of the system's behaviour", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081836}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635051.6556001, "message": "which create button are we talking about?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081850}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634310.6452589, "message": "I cannot remember if we talked about repeating fieldset last time", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081728}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634350.668895, "message": "This is something we should consider when talking about relationships because this feature would remove the need of the most common use cases of SSM", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081736}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634509.522805, "message": "Right", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081756}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634517.026114, "message": "this is something I use SSM for a lot", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081757}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634783.172631, "message": "Mono directional (belongs to) and limit (has many, has one, has most of 3)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081794}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634789.4252, "message": "or bi directional", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081796}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634811.599107, "message": "I think there need to be sane behavior defaults, catering to the 80% of use cases, so to speak. Allow them to be overridden by extensions, but provide some default behavior so that users who want to do very basic things don't have to spend a week researching all the available extensions", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081799}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634876.6046171, "message": "@allen I thinks that'll be fine", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081810}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634995.6894629, "message": "the UI shouldn't be in the core in my eyes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081843}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634996.3250799, "message": ":)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081844}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635080.173094, "message": "In my concept the user wouldn't be able to create \"relationship content\" without an extension", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081862}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635122.444021, "message": "and the extension would have to respect hat", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081868}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635124.516052, "message": "*that", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081869}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635199.9222419, "message": "I've mentioned that relationship is broken down to the concept of ownership and limit", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081885}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635315.3419631, "message": "Symphony should offer an relationship API for extensions", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081909}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635369.572207, "message": "by Symphony doesn't care about the presentation of the relationship", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081917}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634379.5623291, "message": "I don't recall if we talked about it but I have certainly discussed it with Craig, Alistair and Scott in the past", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081739}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634484.2936759, "message": "but Scott couldn't make it work within the confines of the S2 UI", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081750}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634485.3925569, "message": "I was thinking of something like: \"I need multiple phone numbers\"", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081751}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634617.0941751, "message": "right", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081770}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634743.4947679, "message": "When we talk about relationships we're really talking about two sets of concepts: direction and limit", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081784}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634897.2135561, "message": "okay, so this I feel crosses somewhat to the concept of behaviour Craig is talking about", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081814}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634935.923178, "message": "If I reached 3 entries, the UI need to remove the create button and the system needs to respond with, \"dude, you can't make more entries beyond 3)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081828}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634428.4955111, "message": "Should've been discussed alongside field architecture but it didn't come up", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081742}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634503.976126, "message": "\"but I don't know how many\"", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081753}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635284.5391679, "message": "I want to be able to say, \"a shop has many products\" or \"my company has at most 3 phone numbers\"", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081903}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635350.4442911, "message": "and only allows extension to do what the preferences allow", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081916}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635648.5765131, "message": "the limit and the relationship", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081971}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634554.350652, "message": "If the backend would be capable to group fields into fieldsets it should be possible to duplicate these", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081763}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634780.0710671, "message": "yes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081792}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635151.3275189, "message": "so if the extension tries to store more than three subitems, Symphony should throw an error", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081872}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635804.924011, "message": "if \"someone\" tries to store a forth item", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082014}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635960.4818721, "message": "either in the overview (like SBL works)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082043}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636323.490165, "message": "and sections are where relationships technically exist", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082131}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636630.814832, "message": "nested lists provided via extension", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082213}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636737.3429639, "message": "but it works", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082253}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634650.3690619, "message": "So what's our take on storage v.s. storage + behaviour for section relationship?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081774}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634713.542438, "message": "Active record states only 4 types of relationships", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081780}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635023.519789, "message": "So if I reach 3 entries, an extension should be the one to remove the create button?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081847}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635438.7895651, "message": "Backtrack a little bit", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081931}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635449.632966, "message": "I was going on a different direction", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081932}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634572.582351, "message": "without having to create a \"subsection\" or relationship to a container section", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081765}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634608.5624659, "message": "it would also reduce the need of complex interfaces like SSM", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081768}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634609.2025981, "message": "Well, let's go over the 3 agenda items then we can discuss the topic of repeatable fieldsets right after", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081769}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634660.3649011, "message": "the only reason why I don't want the system to handle more than relationship storage is that there are too many possible types of relationships", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081777}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634694.072315, "message": "SSM had to redo a lot of things because it's logic is contrary to the one of SBL", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081779}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634760.0546739, "message": "well ... I was surprise how people use SSM and thought I thought of all possibilities already", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081787}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634857.834022, "message": "I've no problem with that but it doesn't make much sense to me when everything else - even the simplest field - is sourced out into extensions", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081806}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634909.489785, "message": "everything that's about the setup of a relationship should be handled by the core in my opinion", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081819}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634922.515341, "message": "yeah", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081823}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305634924.5510199, "message": "agreed", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081824}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635036.1433229, "message": "and if I don't have this extension, what happens?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081848}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635073.537149, "message": "> If I reached 3 entries, the UI need to remove the create button and the system needs to respond with, \"dude, you can't make more entries beyond 3\"", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081856}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635095.98558, "message": "so there wouldn't be a create new button without an relationship extension", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081864}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635114.0439301, "message": "Symphony should store the preference that the relationship only allows 3 items", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081866}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635203.3819151, "message": "I'd like to differentiate between \"relationship preferences\" and \"relationship UI\"", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081887}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635157.305145, "message": "even removing the concept of content relationships", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081875}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636030.6069019, "message": "1. A general section limit", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082062}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636438.4546089, "message": "It would be really nice if relationships could be displayed in nested lists (accordion like) - but this could be done via extensions", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082162}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636462.572443, "message": "via an API", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082172}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635266.736485, "message": "no", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081902}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635334.331542, "message": "eg. \"max 3 phone numbers\"", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081912}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635146.9997549, "message": "I'm talking very fundamental", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081871}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635178.7755251, "message": "um", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081881}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635325.0505919, "message": "this API takes the sections relationship settings", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081910}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635341.8300731, "message": "Exactly", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081913}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635377.440644, "message": "this is where I'd introduce extensions", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081920}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635388.4750521, "message": "and more complicated UIs like SSM", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081925}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635488.003849, "message": "I can create a \"Cars\" section and limit that by 3", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081939}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635588.306999, "message": "In such cases, I can create entry limits", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081954}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635656.5773709, "message": "yes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081974}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635671.4292259, "message": "Okay, cool. We're on the same page", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081981}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635776.625324, "message": "this (internal) API or manager or class will have to know about the section settings", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082010}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636314.4050269, "message": "not so for sections", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082130}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635857.659811, "message": "and the system will have to remove the create new button after the third item", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082022}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635924.411093, "message": "*entry", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082032}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636209.61343, "message": "I mean, from a system perspective", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082086}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635302.4510009, "message": "yes - that what I call \"relationship preferences\"", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081904}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636196.772553, "message": "Either a core class that accesses section relationship toolkit functions or an extension does is more or less the same", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082081}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636610.2210879, "message": "why should relationships affect these things?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082203}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636913.1051061, "message": "agreed", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082301}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636933.4022999, "message": "we'll we're agreed on #3", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082305}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637065.8814299, "message": "right", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082360}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637092.4800191, "message": "I'll update the wiki to reflect our newfound consensus", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082371}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637494.312403, "message": "not for fields", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082482}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637524.7040009, "message": "for fieldsets, it works", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082487}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637876.482913, "message": "the only thing I wanted to note is that it would be perfect to have a core option to simple repeat a field or a set of fields without the need of a subsection", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082570}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635614.998538, "message": "For this to work, the core needs to understand how to handle cases outside of the limit", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081963}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636774.124074, "message": "so let's say this:", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082262}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636774.3402209, "message": "yeah", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082263}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638026.1813011, "message": "you'd severely limit the user in this case", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082598}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635380.869086, "message": "a simple core one", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081922}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635462.0818341, "message": "right", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081935}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635475.1778851, "message": "The concept of limit doesn't necessarily have to be part of ownership", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081937}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635476.3425159, "message": "i.e.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081938}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635819.510361, "message": "the system has to throw some kind of error like \"forbidden\"", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082016}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635876.291647, "message": "in a section that is connect via a relationship there are to possible cases:", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082025}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636129.1442201, "message": "I don't have problems with anything that's said so far. Either some default UI/behaviour is in the core or they're relegated to extensions ultimately provides the same experience for the user apart from the extension installation and searching aspect.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082074}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636700.424284, "message": "publish filtering is something different", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082240}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636720.999109, "message": "filtering by related entries will make things quite complicated", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082248}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636771.810667, "message": "that's true", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082261}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637092.012589, "message": "You know, all we've done is say, \"this is now the problem of the extension API, let them worry about it\"", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082370}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635611.327162, "message": "right", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081960}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635621.8391769, "message": "yes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081965}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635625.585392, "message": "i.e. remove the \"create new\" button and throw and error message", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081967}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635638.019063, "message": "I think we have to separate two things", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081970}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635656.6755741, "message": "limits have to work without relationships", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081975}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635661.036371, "message": "they are a section setting", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081977}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635683.6495759, "message": "Well then, that is where it gets tricky", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081985}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635683.9046509, "message": "relationships are a section setting, too", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081986}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635699.3980579, "message": "I don't think it's possible to entirely separate out storage and behaviour", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081989}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635710.0824921, "message": "the other place where the core provides UI without regard for extensions is the entries index", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081991}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635711.631068, "message": "it should be possible", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081993}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635717.052527, "message": "the same way limit has to have some level of core assumption of how to handle limits", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1081995}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635729.5520129, "message": "wait - let's not mix in the overview at this point", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082001}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635756.1963229, "message": "the system will provide some kind of API to store entries", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082007}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635784.3831501, "message": "e. g. \"not more than three entries\"", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082011}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636989.281606, "message": "actually", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082332}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637013.525269, "message": "or maybe we answered 1 by answering 2", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082341}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637457.8422899, "message": "yes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082475}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637487.6622479, "message": "?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082480}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637505.192775, "message": "how should an extension handle this?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082484}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637563.723845, "message": "how should that work?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082497}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635836.338207, "message": "If I use a normal section", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082017}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635921.283607, "message": "the user browses the subsection directly - in this case it's Symphony that won't show a create new button after the third entries", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082031}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636003.5103259, "message": "you're right", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082059}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636216.497443, "message": "yes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082090}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636332.523926, "message": "so, yes, the entries index for example", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082134}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636506.4228201, "message": "and also interfacing with other extensions like publish filtering", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082183}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636744.8617411, "message": "it even works in Symphony 2.2", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082254}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637067.301827, "message": "as we implement, we'll revisit", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082362}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637671.708776, "message": "how would you save to different sections from the same form?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082521}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637778.0406351, "message": "We're going to the granularity of the system where handling the most atomic data is now required to be sectioned off to a foreign table. This breaks some fundamental rules about data structure assumptions", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082544}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635838.7298169, "message": "without relationship", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082018}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635928.231746, "message": "in the parent section", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082036}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635984.087697, "message": "and this extension will have to take care of the limit", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082053}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636036.0453579, "message": "2. a relationship limit", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082064}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636363.9405611, "message": "If I create a simple 'belongs to' relationship between entries in the same section, should I be able to nest those entries?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082145}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636454.8261909, "message": "the system should provide access to related content", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082168}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635942.314414, "message": "there is some kind of UI to create a new subitem", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082038}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635949.517065, "message": "which is provided by an extension", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082040}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635969.950237, "message": "or on the edit page (like SSM)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082047}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636680.7581789, "message": "Actually I guess it won't affect anything. Entries ID are provided, then the extension does a supplementary query to grab related entries", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082233}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636921.449887, "message": "dang, only managed to down #1 in one hour", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082302}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305635976.0857699, "message": "there's a difference between a limit of 3 entries and limit of 3 entries per parent", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082050}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636624.1712401, "message": "I just mean in terms of your example", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082209}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636876.7919149, "message": "and to provide a robust API that allows extensions to to what they want", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082292}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637110.123677, "message": "hehe", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082385}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636024.1458161, "message": "but this are different settings:", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082061}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636068.0818031, "message": "A section that is used as a subsection should have a limit if the relationship is limited", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082067}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636087.4488111, "message": "You should be able to limit the relationship without limiting the subsection", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082069}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636154.515048, "message": ":)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082077}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637034.5168951, "message": "I think so", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082345}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637491.8830349, "message": "I don't think so", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082481}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637510.0895071, "message": "adds too much complexity to have sub-sections for phone numbers", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082485}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636221.748487, "message": "I agree", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082093}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636267.104733, "message": "@czheng are there arguments for keeping UI behaviours in the core that we should discuss?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082108}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636289.8240099, "message": "the index or overview", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082116}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636390.7427671, "message": "Yes, right. The scope of the extension API will need to expand beyond what we have now to accomodate for section relationships and could ultimately make the API very complex", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082153}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636505.904762, "message": "Wouldn't that affect other things like pagination and sorting?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082181}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636599.5655799, "message": "I'm not sure about pagination and sorting", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082200}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637107.623019, "message": ";)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082383}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636225.2261779, "message": "well, the architecture would be different, but you know what I mean", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082095}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636283.280936, "message": "There is one thing", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082113}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636311.516175, "message": "when it comes to fields, extensions are responsible for nearly all UI", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082126}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636679.1426699, "message": "But sorting and paginations is based on the parents not on the children", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082231}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636693.869467, "message": "yes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082238}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637256.1618831, "message": "I have no idea how to implement these things", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082433}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637481.4596739, "message": "So an extension that leverages section relationships to create this behaviour would be acceptable", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082478}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637623.0071819, "message": "you can have a fieldset with one field", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082507}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637716.062789, "message": "This is why I mentioned that repeating field is a scary and problematic concept", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082534}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637719.209378, "message": "fieldset is not", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082535}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638505.882308, "message": "ok do a prototype :)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082726}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637734.9142671, "message": "okay - I missed that one step", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082537}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638584.5816331, "message": "I would make navigation item moveable for developers if they switched into some kind of edit mode", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082744}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636690.2701221, "message": "so this shouldn't create more complexity", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082236}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636909.2826619, "message": "cool, agreed", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082298}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636959.389786, "message": "yes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082316}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636975.200382, "message": "thanks", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082324}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636984.0067289, "message": "#2 was part of the discussion of #1", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082329}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637129.1822269, "message": "repeating fields and repeating fieldsets", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082397}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637320.8788669, "message": "kind of", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082448}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637383.8070619, "message": "or phone numbers", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082458}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636760.3478169, "message": "I think the finer points of this discussion aren't going to really be surfaced until we're implementing", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082258}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638410.3913031, "message": "this always was counterintuitive to me", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082708}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638458.9307129, "message": "edit in place a la Nick's dashboard UI", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082714}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636887.3667929, "message": "and we'll aim to create a default extension (I'm trying to stop saying \"core extension\" because it's an oxymoron) that handles basic, common relationship UI stuff", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082294}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636997.157454, "message": "we only answered #2, not #1", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082335}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637381.3017659, "message": "where you need to enter multiple addresses", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082457}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637217.4295781, "message": "Repeating fieldsets would utilise section relationships. Repeating fields is a scary and problematic concept", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082424}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637299.983011, "message": "repeating fieldsets is askin to SSM right?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082445}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637366.985266, "message": "That's what I'm thinking", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082455}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636843.8231411, "message": "our aim will be to keep as much out of core as possible", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082281}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637078.0634711, "message": "ok, thanks guys, this was good", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082365}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637269.314347, "message": "but it would be more intuitive for users", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082437}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637531.566896, "message": "notice my remark above re: fieldsets vs fields", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082490}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637640.3063531, "message": "this can only be done via iframes or really complex logic on save", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082511}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638115.9227581, "message": "it's a common interface paradigm", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082623}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638396.861969, "message": "and _after_ saving the section a new tab offers the ability to arrange fields", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082706}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638509.8926721, "message": "the main section settings could be in some kind of a drawer", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082728}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638624.5611, "message": "pull a section out of the navigation", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082749}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305639233.79212, "message": "so see you soon", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082856}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636944.225244, "message": "relationships defined in sections", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082311}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636963.5881259, "message": "last chat we were almost all unanimous anyway. Now Nils agrees so I think we're good", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082318}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636969.478214, "message": "hehe right", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082320}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636972.2299981, "message": "cool", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082322}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636973.505362, "message": "*lol*", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082323}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305636990.187211, "message": "Also established the separation of ownership and limit", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082333}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637001.9220231, "message": "and the concept of section limit and relationship limit", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082338}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637016.6711521, "message": "right", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082342}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637053.1409259, "message": "still a lot of questions, but I think we've done as much as we can for now, which is to decide on our general approach", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082350}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637061.8817489, "message": "cool, agreed", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082356}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637207.8093669, "message": "So it would be ice to have", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082421}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637448.1928351, "message": "using a sledgehammer to crack a nut", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082473}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638072.2629781, "message": "@czheng your statement was directed at me or Nils?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082612}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638369.3009241, "message": "you first setup your fields like to did in S2", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082703}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637341.6614799, "message": "it almost sounds like Repeatable Fieldsets would be an extension that leverages the relationships API", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082451}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637650.8236389, "message": "Why?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082515}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638062.167273, "message": "I think it hard to understand the concept of subsection for newbies", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082609}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638090.346034, "message": "at Nils", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082614}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638091.4673159, "message": "it like creating a new row in Excel", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082615}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638330.714395, "message": "I think we don't need a section editor", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082691}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638336.228478, "message": ":)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082693}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638659.84602, "message": "The section index in current S3 build reads off the section xml to determine if section needs to be updated", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082755}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637146.8615799, "message": "yes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082402}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637220.2347491, "message": "(ice sounds nice too)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082425}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638456.822957, "message": "like field positions", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082713}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637533.7943299, "message": "it's a general thing how Symphony stores fields and field data", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082491}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637929.7877779, "message": "sounds messy, to be honest", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082582}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638444.529563, "message": "with an edit button only visible to developers", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082711}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637109.620764, "message": "what about repeating fieldsets?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082384}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637124.986515, "message": "Right", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082393}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305639004.838937, "message": "yep", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082812}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305639027.2704501, "message": "No worries, thanks all", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082817}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305639076.3239391, "message": "I have not and I understand the frustration", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082824}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305639103.612401, "message": "@nilshoerrmann please keep at it", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082828}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638756.466809, "message": "yeah for sure... I'm a little worried about not having appear in the Framework menu alongside Views, Events, etc", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082767}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638759.335216, "message": "yeah", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082768}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637162.1143589, "message": "I can just say that it would simplify both, the workflow and the interface", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082407}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637210.134948, "message": "*nice", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082422}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638240.3026569, "message": "2. no", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082661}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638451.8045411, "message": "allowing inline changes to the section", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082712}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638495.8169379, "message": "I'm not sure", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082723}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637366.8221641, "message": "we often have contact sections in our client projects", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082454}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638069.700115, "message": "repeating fields are easy to understand", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082611}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638278.3635859, "message": "yup", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082678}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638754.8037491, "message": "I find it a little bit weird since I am used to the idea that all my \"building\" happens under \"Blueprints\"", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082766}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638824.7976179, "message": "Nils, if you'd have time to write most of the JS, I'd be happy to collaborate on a POC", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082776}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638919.6031539, "message": "I'll ask him next time I see him on Skype", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082794}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305639000.9204559, "message": "You're a backend sorta guy", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082808}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305639197.368175, "message": "@nilshoerrmann They'll go on as normal, really. Allen and I will simply participate as individuals", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082849}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305639201.6533251, "message": "yeah", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082850}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637398.1832039, "message": "and it feels dump to create multiple phone number fields", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082462}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637409.6442671, "message": "and it feels a bit over the top to use SSM for this task", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082464}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637444.526619, "message": "Is it over the top in terms of using a complex UI for the user for a simple thing?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082471}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637543.8805201, "message": "> Repeating fieldsets would utilise section relationships. Repeating fields is a scary and problematic concept", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082492}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637560.2592461, "message": "but he's talking about repeating fields now", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082496}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637568.3932109, "message": "no no", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082498}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637587.4235981, "message": "maybe I don't understand the difference - for me fields or fieldsets don't make a difference", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082500}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637602.74965, "message": "fieldsets would rely on relationships", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082501}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637606.288532, "message": "fieldset would be a collection of fields aka section", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082502}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637607.3404031, "message": "so would point to another section", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082503}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637618.8765731, "message": "that's problematik", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082504}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637622.3214369, "message": "like SSM", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082506}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637639.129457, "message": "that means you create a Phone Numbers section, which is silly to me", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082510}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637674.996347, "message": "The extension API will have functions to save data. Section relationship is a known concept in the core", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082522}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638702.285372, "message": "or via POST data", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082761}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637685.2026229, "message": "and why should I create a subsection for a simple repeating field or fieldset", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082524}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637697.612659, "message": "the extension will call a function from the relationship class to save related entries", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082529}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637745.272007, "message": "when I talk about repeating fieldsets", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082539}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637753.885859, "message": "this hasn't anything to do with relationships", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082542}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637786.3248751, "message": "if a fieldset is a subsection and looks like the rest of the section we are just talking about a different SSM UI", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082548}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637892.3918159, "message": "Yes, exactly", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082576}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637964.8293359, "message": "yes, I agree re: repeating fields , not fieldsets", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082588}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638103.4362631, "message": "repeating fields merit further discussion, IMO", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082619}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638150.8416891, "message": "those fields store repeating entries in a foreign table but this doesn't have to be handled by the core in any way right?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082636}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637799.424165, "message": "this doesn't solve my problem", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082551}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637926.9649999, "message": "but that means that whole behaviour will need its own set of very similar functionalities to section releationships", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082581}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638552.274493, "message": "and it's really intuitive", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082735}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638562.765996, "message": "no", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082739}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305639232.7925739, "message": "ciao!", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082855}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637944.1351111, "message": "for simple task like repeating phone numbers, related section / subsections are not the most logic thing in the world", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082585}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638257.309164, "message": "which brings us back to the field architecture discussion", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082670}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638900.87449, "message": "cool, do you mind asking him", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082790}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638996.9895589, "message": "lol", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082806}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637844.420707, "message": "I really don't know enough about database etc. so I'm not in the best position to discuss that", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082558}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637849.691292, "message": "if you need to repeat the same set of fields over and over you're creating an alternative to sections and relationships", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082560}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638040.63152, "message": "in terms of how they can manage that data, and how they can access it", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082603}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638045.0612741, "message": "fair enough", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082604}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638546.125411, "message": "it allows inline tab creation", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082734}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638552.396028, "message": "would you retain the sections index?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082736}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638619.7895279, "message": "How about section syncing?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082748}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638685.33494, "message": "shouldn't it be possible to update the xml via an AJAX call", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082758}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638720.82673, "message": "Ok, I think it's worth experimenting with this", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082764}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638792.6458449, "message": "and this would be one step in this direction", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082773}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638861.7720721, "message": "thanks for both translations", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082782}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638913.0980251, "message": "excellent", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082793}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638180.840245, "message": "Right, so this is a solvable issue that doesn't concern the core", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082643}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638246.463901, "message": "I guess this issue would be that it might need to be applied across field types", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082667}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638431.446985, "message": "I think it would be appropriate to have this option directly in the publish area", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082709}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638630.552171, "message": "section syncing?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082750}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305639165.0605161, "message": "@czheng nice", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082841}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638356.5024869, "message": "but I noticed one thing", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082700}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637991.5191829, "message": "I don't think it's messy - it's just different to what we are used to in S2", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082592}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638033.092324, "message": "Maybe we don't have to continue this discussion I just wanted to throw in this idea", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082601}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638110.816843, "message": "Well, you can create a field that behaves similarly to taglist field or select boxes (allow multiple)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082620}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305637994.9952459, "message": "In both active record and fundamental DB concepts, that is considered to be a foreign table", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082593}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638238.811765, "message": "1. yes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082659}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638262.6159329, "message": "and the question of enhancements", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082674}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638781.5925291, "message": "but I thought the next version should be innovative", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082770}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638149.125478, "message": "@allen, yes like Brendan has done", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082635}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638115.3631999, "message": "yes - and further toughts", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082621}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638130.3934181, "message": "\"Add another\"", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082631}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638153.680768, "message": "the 1.7 upload field worked like this", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082638}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638260.9163151, "message": "Right", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082673}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638304.6405859, "message": "I have one last thing (somekind of off-topic)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082686}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638308.218996, "message": "ok", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082688}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638315.170815, "message": "a foolhardy idea", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082689}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638352.2398541, "message": "yes - and it's not entirely true", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082697}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638361.1529329, "message": "in S3", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082701}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638194.926708, "message": "or am I missing something?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082648}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638273.7708449, "message": "Okay, let's leave this issue for that topic", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082677}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638286.8488779, "message": "And end this meeting and call it a success ;)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082682}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638292.17272, "message": "right", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082684}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638336.3626189, "message": "Sounds dangerous", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082694}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638460.3805161, "message": "field names etc", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082715}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638464.411901, "message": "yes", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082717}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638481.8670101, "message": "tricky thing would be bulk-editing fields", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082720}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638487.243751, "message": "I would also be possible to allow section creation from the navigation menu", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082721}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638490.804276, "message": "but maybe not", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082722}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638499.3528271, "message": "interesting", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082724}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638513.2059691, "message": "ha ha", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082730}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638539.440654, "message": "I've been working on a tabs solution for SSM for a few weeks now", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082732}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638584.5698731, "message": "how to delete a section, or all entries in a section?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082743}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638606.522222, "message": "either with inline buttons or a context menu", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082747}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638642.684423, "message": "sections can be updated via XML too", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082752}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638652.322036, "message": "in that case they need to be synced back to the db", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082753}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638760.1719871, "message": "so there might be fundamental problems", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082769}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638816.4262061, "message": "I think it was a blog post that made me think of this concept", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082775}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638923.845042, "message": "great", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082795}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638970.3505859, "message": "anyway, that's by-the-by", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082803}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305639023.391021, "message": "thanks, too", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082816}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305639048.3034849, "message": "1h 30min. Not bad.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082820}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305639049.281877, "message": "@allen: One last question: you didn't have contact with Mr. Denne over the last week by any chance?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082821}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305639062.603039, "message": "@czheng: I will", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082823}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638790.3508899, "message": "agreed. I think a proof-of-concept is the place to begin", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082771}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638981.0156281, "message": "Yeah in general I prefer the back-end approach", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082804}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305639009.333056, "message": "alright...", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082813}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638907.9506531, "message": "no problem", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082792}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305639122.312412, "message": "at least that's when my job is over", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082831}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638752.418546, "message": "I did not think this through for a long time", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082765}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305639156.233762, "message": "@allen I wrote up that other POC, on data output", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082838}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638790.354578, "message": "I am open to the idea", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082772}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638838.260206, "message": "someone posted that he came to the conclusion that backends shouldn't be needed any more", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082778}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305639099.329968, "message": "My understanding is that accounts will be settled by end of month", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082826}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638844.275636, "message": "POC - Piece of Crap. ;)", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082779}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638891.354799, "message": "maybe Simone would be interested as well", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082787}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305639001.0458829, "message": "that's what he said", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082809}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638850.6370959, "message": "I know, Proof of Concept.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082781}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638882.46452, "message": "Yes, it would be a nice collaboration", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082785}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638885.9717071, "message": "Well there's a fad of sorts to do everything 'in place'", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082786}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638903.1214571, "message": "?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082791}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305639166.2629831, "message": "Guten Appetit, Allen", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082842}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305639204.836879, "message": "alright guys", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082852}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305639207.8904259, "message": "right", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082853}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638933.1826069, "message": "One version Scott built did not have a blueprints area at all and it's all done via the frontend", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082796}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305639150.0846319, "message": "Right guys, I have to go get food", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082835}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305639193.457778, "message": "@nilshoerrmann For the better, but should discuss this in a separate place and time", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082848}, {"user_id": 23057, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305638966.656472, "message": "go to any URL and type ?create-page and the page is created. The UI looks like the ?debug with form to configure the page.", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082802}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305639015.7124281, "message": "this was a good meeting, thaks guys", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082814}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305639017.5593491, "message": "*thanks", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082815}, {"user_id": 7384, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305639033.7834649, "message": "Nils, just ping me re: the POC", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082819}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305639078.6017611, "message": "@czheng: but it'll take a while - some busy weeks ahead", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082825}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305639150.9532781, "message": "So how will things go on?", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082837}, {"user_id": 22655, "stars": [], "topic_id": 21790, "date_created": 1305639238.0125151, "message": "Tsch\u00fc\u00df!", "group_id": 8448, "id": 1082858}]
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